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The TikTok War

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Re: The TikTok War

#361
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How exactly does using TikTok help China silence millions of camped Uyghurs? If we all switched to Facebook would their voices be heard?

Do you agree that all Chinese companies (even foreign ones operating in China), state owned or not, has to do whatever CCP wants?

If you do, you already have the answer. If you don't, I suggest you get to know a bit more about China before CCP's alternative facts become the facts.

Re: The TikTok War

#362
Tiktok's parent company, bytedance is incorporated in Cayman islands. It has a Chinese subsidiary operating Douyin in China , and a US subsidiary operating Tiktok in the US. The Chinese national intelligence law is applied to the Chinese subsidiary but not the parent because the parent is not incorporated in China. Hence the US subsidiary is not subjected to Chinese law. If Chinese government demands US data and Bytedance's Chinese subsidiary refuses, the government can shut down the Chinese subsidiary, but the Cayman island parent will still operate. Hence Chinese government has no power over the US subsidiary. Author says that Chinese values and American values are absolutely opposing and because of that Tiktok's algorithms and product design could undermine American values either consciously or unconsciously. Right now Bytedance's US subsidiary is managed by Americans, hires US based engineers, and the content moderation team is staffed with Americans. The goal should be that Tiktok and Douyin will be separate, design, operated and moderated separately. This could be strengthened by having American management at Bytedance parent, and have Bytedance go public and have American board directors. I hope that whatever international fears about Tiktok, the regulatory body/government should make list of rules for Tiktok. Tiktok should be given a chance to defend its positions, and ability to comply with the rules. We should not just straight out ban tiktok, like "bam, after today, its removed from app stores everywhere". that is not in the spirit of rule of law.

Re: The TikTok War

#363

Tiktok's parent company, bytedance is incorporated in Cayman islands. It has a Chinese subsidiary operating Douyin in China , and a US subsidiary operating Tiktok in the US. The Chinese national intelligence law is applied to the Chinese subsidiary but not the parent because the parent is not incorporated in China. Hence the US subsidiary is not subjected to Chinese law. If Chinese government demands US data and Byte…

"If Chinese government demands US data and Bytedance's Chinese subsidiary refuses, the government can shut down the Chinese subsidiary, but the Cayman island parent will still operate. Hence Chinese government has no power over the US subsidiary."

The issue is the Chinese government can compel it's citizens to do whatever they want. Having non-Chinese in the management of Bytedance could help but I can't imagine they could have a truly independent board if Bytedance is majority owned by Chinese citizens.

Re: The TikTok War

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Chinese people will suffer if the US continue to inflame the tensions of cold war for its only financial benefit. The Chinese people would be far better in a world where they are viewed as equal, and freedom will spread when the US respects freedom of every people to participate of the global world. You cannot say that you defend freedom by creating barriers and inflaming wars across the world.

No, Chinese people will be free if the CCP is overthrown, and a popular form of government is established.

It is up to the Chinese people to do this. If a foreign country overthrows the Chinese government this is nothing more than an international crime against their sovereignty.

Re: The TikTok War

#365

It is hardly just Tiktok policing content with an agenda. Twitter, Youtube, Reddit are particularly bad if you are conservative or have gender critical ideas. Reddit recently banned a ton of subreddits that are simply critical of the idea that men can literally become women (they say it's to stop hate, but they leave up violent porn subs and other subs that hate women). Even subreddits like PCOS - a very serious cond…

> are particularly bad if you are conservative or have gender critical ideas I downvoted you because this is not true. Watch YT logged out and you will discover it quickly starts recommending far right videos, recommending more extreme videos as you watch them. As for "gender critical" and your following paragraph, people aren't being banned for simply misgendering people. It's intentional misgendering from hateful p…

Doing what you suggest has an immense issue of selection bias. You go into youtube trying to see if it recommends right wing videos, and you're going to be a lot more likely to click on right wing videos. Which then informs the algorithm that you're interested in right wing videos. The correct way to test this is to write a program, not to just watch youtube while logged off.

I used selenium to do exactly this. Start at a video, and do a breadth based search based on recommendations. No such preference for far right videos exist. It's frequently get into a hole of certain topics (e.g. first recommendation is on knitting, subsequent recommendations have a higher chance of being about knitting, and so on), but there was no substantial representation of right wing content. And it's not just me with a selenium driver. Other researchers have examined youtube and reached the same conclusion: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1912.11211.pdf

Re: The TikTok War

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Chinese people will be free if the CCP is overthrown, and a popular form of government is established.

It is up to the Chinese people to do this. If a foreign country overthrows the Chinese government this is nothing more than an international crime against their sovereignty.

It's not going to happen without violence, as the PRC is strictly a one-party state.

Re: The TikTok War

#367

Tiktok's parent company, bytedance is incorporated in Cayman islands. It has a Chinese subsidiary operating Douyin in China , and a US subsidiary operating Tiktok in the US. The Chinese national intelligence law is applied to the Chinese subsidiary but not the parent because the parent is not incorporated in China. Hence the US subsidiary is not subjected to Chinese law. If Chinese government demands US data and Byte…

Zhang Yiming, ByteDance's owner, is a Chinese citizen who lives in Beijing. The real problem is the latter part, in that PRC can do whatever physical enforcement on him. While I don't doubt his intention to keep TikTok separate from international politics as far as possible, but I am 100% sure that if CCP doesn't like Zhang's "lack of patriotism", it will teach him a lesson even if it's a unlawful way. They did it to Jack Ma, so the same thing can happen to Zhang.

Re: The TikTok War

#368
Tik Tok success as a technology is well argued by the author. That should be copied and cloned and compete as MANY not as one.

That is this onesness that I try to argue. This is this oneness that get China and the strategy missing this part of China the problem.

Obviously I would be baised in the sense that the author just gave up my whole place and my 2m+ liberty loving followers. U people, HK people, TW people ... is just part of China, we can just dump them (or you can just dump us) because we belong to a "ONE". The whole idea of human rights are about individual not about the rights of nation over you or us in Hong Kong. If you let the oneness grow and ignore that one is evil, you die with us because the evil will expand. HK is the front of the ideological fight. Not sure why the author not noted that the play against HK is a play against the promise and contract by the less powerful China to the future. Read Deng speech in UN, you can see there is a promising China. But look at today you know nothing in the one is preventing it. The West look otherwise by letting China grow so powerful it is near a stat that cannot fail. The west has to feed the hand that is going to kill them. Just cut the tie is not enough. A more aggressive way of engaging is needed. Otherwise the world is just another South China Seas.

China has been asserted itself in Internet (speech by Xin please read), UN, WTO, WHO, ... etc. They have number on their side in the past. Now they have money, they have the language (so many good English speakers in the elite and their children), ... There could be millions inside the west and trillion in the bank. It is like Soviet Union evolve and attack USA soil from underneath.

But the analysis is so well that seems ok? That we have to deal with China as one. It is partially yes and partially No. The key problem is what we call one-ness of Chinese thinking. You using that you lost already. What America is great and Europe in a sense has built-in immunity is that there are individual (or even the extreme right has the club concept). You do not analysis a world as a world. A world is nothing but its individual and its links among individual. Now the problem when you think the whole China is a whole you have to fight against then you got yourselves a long term problem.

I said long term is from time to time China would group itself together into one big nasty empire. The best is when it is weak (like in Sung Dynasty) when the culture of unity does not break human backs. But once they are big and as oneness is built into the pyshce they just go ahead to transform all barbarians and uncivilised into one of them. There is no stop. Nothing internal to the Chinese philosophy has many in mind. Everyone has to be saved is what they think, and it is what ultimately you got.

What you need to do is to ensure the individual spirit and liberty mind to survive inside. So the original promise that a great China contribute as part of many, not force its way as one into the world. Just cut into two would not help. HK, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the whole Asian countries are those many.

Not one less! Not just one!

:-) ok back to my debugging of the solitaire of C. gdb tracing of pointer structure is hard, isn't it. From 6502 (by guessing), 370 (XA to ESA extension and control block) to now; still you always deal with dump. Sigh. Back to my cave even though the world is collapsing, that you can hack as an individual and do what you enjoy is more important. And that is why this all about. We should have more or one TikTok.

Re: The TikTok War

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?

My theoretical answer would be that we can regulate American companies more effectively and have them be held accountable, like when Zuckerberg had to go before Congress. I doubt you'd be able to get the CEO of a large Chinese company to do that. In reality we don't regulate them nearly as much as we can, so the end result is that FB and Tiktok both invade your privacy.

As a non-American looking on, it seems to me like the US government has failed spectacularly at any kind of regulation, and to the contrary is often actively trying to undermine privacy laws. Zuckerberg in front of congress achieved exactly zero, except provide footage for loads of memes of Zuckerberg as a lizard.

I prefer the idea of a US based social media company to a Chinese one. But only slightly. I would much rather the company be based somewhere with genuine intent to create consumer safety and privacy focused laws.

Re: The TikTok War

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is quite ironic that on the one hand you completely dismiss sinophobia as a concept, and on the other hand you cite pre-Ghenis Khan times as the reason for being wary of 21st century China.

Once again withe the non-arguments and strawmen. These exchanges do nothing but prove my point. Criticizing the CCP's actions in Hong Kong, for example, is not sinophobic. Criticizing their treatment of the Uighurs is not sinophobic, and criticizing their attempts at intelligence collection and propaganda is not sinophobic. Yet all have been called such at some point in Hacker News comments in recent posts. And my po…

But you weren’t criticizing actions in your posts...
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