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Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

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Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a journalist is not an endorsement of character. You can be a criminal and a journalist, a thief and a journalist, a horrible person and a journalist.

But how you obtain your information definitely does change whether or not you should be called a "journalist". If your information is obtained through blackmail, for instance, you are not a journalist you are an extortionist.

Even mainstream Vox [1], NBC [2], and NYT [3] reporters have recently contacted corporations and individuals threatening to name and shame them if they do not issue an apology, assist with a story, or add their weight to a deplatforming/demonetization campaign.

Do those acts of extortion render those individuals and their supporting editors not-journalists too? I don’t think so. Ethical lapses, deplorable though they may be, are perfectly compatible with still fulfilling the role of a profession.

[1] YouTube adpocalypse effort led by Carlos Maza

[2] NBC’s repetitive naming of Google Ads and brands alongside cherry picked comments on Zero Hedge and The Federalist to delist those competitors.

[3] NYT recent threat to doxx the Scott Alexander blog

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#362

> In 2012, Assange communicated directly with a leader of the hacking group LulzSec (who by then was cooperating with the FBI), and provided a list of targets for LulzSec to hack. With respect to one target, Assange asked the LulzSec leader to look for (and provide to WikiLeaks) mail and documents, databases and pdfs. In another communication, Assange told the LulzSec leader that the most impactful release of hacked…

Real journalists don't just publish anything they can get their hands on with no regards for where the data came from, for what purposes it was given to them and whom their publication might harm.

Don’t worry, he doesn’t publish everything he’s given.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/9/9/12864328/wiki...

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I hope people don't forget that Wikileaks has never once published anything that has been proven false. https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/885395248612085760 He has helped launder edited material from Russian state sponsored hackers in the past. That is one instance, should I find more?

A one-off tweet from a wikileaks twitter account about some other organization publishing something questionable is not at all the same as the document dumps that wikileaks publishes and puts their name behind. I'm obviously talking about the latter. I think it says something that this is the best you can come up with.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/9/9/12864328/wiki...

Assange censors whistleblowers against the Russian government who he openly collaborated with. Do you think this is ethical behavior?

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cp = cheese pizza. code for child porn

I don’t think people’s codes are typically that easy to crack

Cheese pizza is a common euphemism for child pornography online, which I believe originated from 4chan? Not sure on that part, but it's definitely a common slang for it. Now whether that's how they were using it in the emails or not, I have no idea, as I didn't look into the emails. I stopped digging into conspiracy theories around the time the whole Assange "proof-of-life" fiasco was frothing about. I've got better things I can be doing with my time.

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#365
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's such a "well established and obvious fact" then cite some sources and give some proof that the accusations were faked.

https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikilea...

> But she said that during sex, Assange had intentionally broken the condom. If that is true, then it is, of course, a sexual offense – so-called «stealthing».

According to Swedish law, stealthing is rape. So even if neither of the women believe that they were raped, if the circumstances they describe would be seen as rape according to Swedish law, then Assange should be investigated.

However, Assange should definitely have retained anonymity during those investigations.

The Swedish police have been pretty incompetent (it certainly wouldn't be the first time [1]), but it is highly misleading to claim that the rape story was completely fabricated.

> A legal representative by the name of Claes Borgström was appointed to the two women at public cost. The man was a law firm partner to the previous justice minister, Thomas Bodström, under whose supervision Swedish security personnel had seized two men who the U.S. found suspicious in the middle of Stockholm. The men were seized without any kind of legal proceedings and then handed over to the CIA, who proceeded to torture them. That shows the trans-Atlantic backdrop to this affair more clearly.

The "Egypt affair" is well-known in Sweden precisely because it's the only such case. It happened shortly after 9/11 in 2001 and the people responsible for it are no longer involved in politics (the Minister for Foreign Affairs who ultimately made the decision to deport Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad Alzery has been dead since 2003 [2]). So to make the claim that Assange would automatically have been extradited to the US had Sweden arrested him is not a fair claim to make imo.

Like I wrote earlier: the police have definitely mishandled the case, but I doubt that there's been any kind of conspiracy involved from the start.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Holm%C3%A9r

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Lindh

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this being downvoted? It's true and has been explained by Emma Best herself https://archive.is/0VsQR

The parent says > Zeynep isn’t concerned with accuracy either But your link says > Zeynep Tufekci never lied, exaggerated or retracted her article (which was accurate). So I don't see how one explains the other.

Emma Best isn’t being very clear here. In her tweet she very clearly disagrees with Zeynep Tufekcis claims, but for whatever reason the blog is more forgiving.

In any case it’s quite clear that Zeynep wasn’t correct when she claimed that WL dumped this data. WL only tweeted a link to the dump shared by Emma Best, who now operates a “competitor” to WL, DDoSecrets.

I’m not trying to suggest that WL has an amazing track record. I just think that if Zeynep wanted to do the right thing she’d have retracted her claim that WL dumped this data.

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT was just one of a dozen media outlets Assange had offered his show to in 2012. His show was produced completely independent from RT. By the way, Larry King had a show on RT. Is he a russian stooge now too?

Except Julian Assange's show premiered specifically for and on RT[1], and it would have been weird for RT to produce it as a news network. Larry King didn't premier on RT and didn't leak emails from Russian state-sponsored hackers Guccifer 2.0. You've created an HN account for the sole purpose of astroturfing this thread to apologize for Assange against Russian allegations - Why is that? [1] https://thelede.blogs.nyt…

>specifically for

No, it wasn't produced specifically for RT and nowhere does it say so in your source, but RT were the only one of around 12 media outlets he offered it to buy the rights of his show, so it did premiere there.

>You've created an HN account for the sole purpose of astroturfing this thread to apologize for Assange against Russian allegations - Why is that?

I'm not astroturfing. I'm a HN reader since many years but never bothered to make an account since I'm not knowledgable on most topics here anyways and just read comments. But since I follow the case of Assange for a long time and know a lot about it I made an account to correct people.

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#368
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not against use of hacking to reveal higher crimes. I am against hacking in general. I see no good reason for him to have targeted a newspaper. I do see good reason to target secretive government agencies. I see good reason for those agencies to have a problem with this and go after anyone who does it. I am against government agencies having bad enough security that they can be so targeted. Assange isn’t in priso…

> he got kicked out of for breaking their rules This was not really the reason. > and which he fled to because for some reason that never made sense to me he claimed that going from the UK to Sweden put him in danger of the thing which actually happened in the UK. He feared that either the UK or Sweden would send him to the US.

> This was not really the reason.

While I am not naïve enough to ignore the possibility of dishonesty, the official statement was:

“We cannot allow our house, the house that opened its doors, to become a center for spying, … This activity violates asylum conditions. Our decision is not arbitrary but is based on international law.”

and also accusations of blocking security cameras at the embassy.

> He feared that either the UK or Sweden would send him to the US.

And yet, he initially submitted to the UK authorities while trying to deny access to the Swedish ones. That never looked sensible to me.

Don’t get me wrong, I paid attention when the UN accused the UK of torturing him, and the fact that the UK told the US about arresting him at the embassy before it told Sweden even though the latter had an outstanding warrant stinks — but thinking poorly of how governments treat a (very unusual) investigator who showed the world a whole bunch of the skeletons in their closets does not mean I have to think the investigator was doing anything other than fleeing justice in 2011.

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the conspiracy theory is just insane. Almost as insane as the conspiracy theory that one of the world's largest religious organizations was engaging in something similar, except at a scale spanning every continent except Antarctica and having done so for at least as long as living memory. For another conspiracy theory, what about the idea that if a conspiracy was uncovered, instead of denying it those with some…

Pizzagate != Epstein Leaking Podesta's email spawned a conspiracy theory that high-ranking Democrats were a part of a satanic child abuse and traffic ring. It was specifically partisan. Meanwhile there are multiple layers to the Epstein case. Yes, Epstein was a nexus of child abuse. He was a terrible human being who got away with years of child abuse because of his money and powerful connections. Yes, he died under m…

Don't forget how Epstein had a girlfriend.

Girlfriend's dad was a Big Deal with the Mossad. Like, awarded medals by the Israeli government Big Deal. Like, we can't talk about him in the UK unless we make it an official Parliament discussion -- that is, by law, on the record and can't be sued as libel or slander -- kind of Big Deal.

Re: Julian Assange charged in superseding indictment

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually aware of the story. I'm outraged. My father was quite liberal. You may have missed the part where I mentioned that he quit the CIA on moral grounds? It's just that if he had been outed, there's a better than even chance that I would have been killed, so you might say that I have a right to my opinion.

I can't argue against what could have happened, all leaks are not bad. Yes, your timeline would have changed if your father had been killed by a leak. But if we look at what did happen with Wikileaks esp relative to what Richard Armitage did to Valerie Plame and the CIA and that no known violence has occurred against [redacted] folks from the Wikileaks releases. All leaks and all leakers are not the same. Wikileaks p…

"Nothing bad did happen, so nothing bad will happen." is not an especially compelling argument.

If we talk specifically about this one instance, with this limited set of actors, then nothing bad happened, but spilled secrets have killed a lot of people, throughout history.

Some, it is good (like cracking ENIGMA), and some, it is bad (like that old H-bomb thingy). Both of those examples are because of dedicated espionage (and luck). In both of those cases, there were people that believed they were on the right side of history. There were also absolute scoundrels.

The simple fact of the matter is, it's dangerous to greenlight reckless transparency. There's probably a number of folks that are ferociously dedicated to finding out where other folks are, so they can do Very Bad Things to them. In some cases, we might cheer them on, and in other cases, we might be horrified at what happens.

One man's "freedom fighter" is another man's "terrorist." There's a number of folks that regret that the Germans lost WWII. They are absolutely, ferociously dedicated, and they'd like another crack at it. They would love to know a whole lot of things. There's also people that would like to change leadership in Damascus. Some of those folks are ones we'd like to have over for dinner, and some are ones that'd like to have us for dinner.

It's not simple, and there's very, very few "white hats" in the game. Everyone is convinced they are the ones wearing the white hat, and anyone who dies is just "collateral damage."

It's all fine and good, until we become "collateral damage."

For example, I have friends with kids in the military. Some of them are in clandestine service. They may be doing nasty things, or they may be preventing others from doing nasty things to us. Chances are better than even, that it is both (maybe at the same time). I don't want to see my friends have to deal with their kids' death.

We can't have every person that feels they are in the right simply leaking stuff. We also need to shine the light on some of the rot that grows in the dark.

There's no simple solution.

I should add that I have lived in nations run by dictators and thoroughly despotic governments. By the time I was 11, I had lived in two nations that experienced brutal, genocidal war. It can get very, very bad. Many of the kids I played with were likely tortured to death in secret detention centers. I think that the "dark rot" can be downright evil, and it does need to be unearthed. I'm not jingoistic, but I am someone that has been shown both sides of the issues.

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