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DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#361

Post by monocasa »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #202
bitcrazed wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. Microsoft PM working on WSL, Terminal and Windows. WSL2 literally runs user-mode distros (and their binaries) in containers atop a shared Linux kernel image ( https://github.com/microsoft/WSL2-Linux-Kernel ) inside a lightweight VM that can boot an image from cold in So when you run a binary/distro on WSL2, you are LITERALLY running on Linux in a VM alongside all your favorite Windows apps and tools. If some of t…

The question isn't asking whether you, a Windows user who runs Windows, benefit. The question is asking what it does to Linux users who don't run Windows even a little. (And I think you know that.)

That's like asking whether Linux users who don't run ESXi benefit from their paravirtualized drivers being upstreamed. No, they don't, but they were accepted with way less bruhaha. And that's despite VMWare blatantly violating the GPL for more than a decade.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#362

Post by ori_b »

Valmar wrote: post #353
ori_b wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me systemd based systems allow me to have declarative, portable unit files where init scripts don't. Portable to what?

Portable to other systemd-using Linux distros. sysv init scripts simply weren't portable between distros, leading to tons of non-standard, incompatible fragmentation. Users simply couldn't simply take their own scripts over to another distro and expect them to just work, given said differences. With systemd, unit files will simply just work between all systemd distros, given the standardized format.

Oh. That hasn't been my experience. Where did they standardize the names and set of the services you can depend on?

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#363

Post by Unklejoe »

mcv wrote: post #263
boudin wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Wine has a different architecture because distributing microsoft binaries is not legal, so technically it's not the same thing, but it still does an amazing job and a lot of apps/games works flawlessly.

It does an amazing job, but a lot of apps and games do not work flawlessly. Or didn't, last time I tried Wine. Maybe this situation has changed a lot since then, which would be awesome.

It seems like over the last 5 years, Wine has improved a ton. Or at least - it seems way more active.

Not sure why, but I suspect that Valve has a lot to do with it.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#364

Post by adamrt »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #279
dazzawazza wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a FreeBSD user I find this kind of comment hilarious given I see Linux specific code littering upstream open source projects with no thought for other platforms on a regular basis. I occasionally see resistance to fixing these issues as well.

As a Linux user I find this kind of comment hilarious given I see FreeBSD specific code littering upstream open source projects with no thought for other platforms on a regular basis. Why for example are Jails not compatible with Linux? Is that not considered upstream because FreeBSD's "integrated"? How convenient. I think what you see is happening because these "upstream" projects are actually primarily for Linux an…

> I see FreeBSD specific code littering upstream open source projects

Any examples?

> Why for example are Jails not compatible with Linux?

What? Jails originated in FreeBSD over 20 years ago? This question doesn't make sense.

The OP was referring to systemd affecting upstream by requiring systemd for things (ie Gnome). Are you saying there are pieces of software you have always used, but no longer can because they directly rely on jails?

I don't even use FreeBSD, but this was a weird argument.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#365

Post by monocasa »

hibbelig wrote: post #282
bitcrazed wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. Microsoft PM working on WSL, Terminal and Windows. WSL2 literally runs user-mode distros (and their binaries) in containers atop a shared Linux kernel image ( https://github.com/microsoft/WSL2-Linux-Kernel ) inside a lightweight VM that can boot an image from cold in So when you run a binary/distro on WSL2, you are LITERALLY running on Linux in a VM alongside all your favorite Windows apps and tools. If some of t…

With DirectX on WSL, you can do new things when Linux is running on Windows (via WSL). But these new things aren't possible when Linux is running another way (e.g. on the bare metal). So people who use it are married to Windows. I think folks would be absolutely excited if this was an initiative to allow writing DirectX applications on Linux, and available for Linux on bare metal. But as people realize this marries t…

They're not intending d3d to be the client library, they ported Mesa for OpenGL and OpenCl, and are working on a Vulkan port for all of that.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#366

Post by Grimm1 »

Yeah, I don't buy the arguments here that Microsoft can extinguish Linux. Or would want to. Who's going to run Window's servers just to enable wsl? This is clearly targeted at developers coming back to windows on the PC, the aim is even stated as such to "enable IDEs" on wsl. I've ran arch, ubuntu and debian on my various systems, not because I want to but because they have the superior development environment in the terminal, outside of that Linux still feels janky and doesn't have any market share because of that.

Microsoft is making something I've wanted for a while, I can get Linux off my desktop and laptop do my development and my game playing on Windows and ssh into my servers for any heavy lifting. This sounds like it will be a great win for devs.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#367

Post by xlqa »

m12k wrote: post #264
lalaland1125 wrote: post #213

It appears that Microsoft has now initiated the "Extend" phase of their classic Embrace, Extend, Extinguish playbook. The key is that the proprietary Microsoft specific API added by this patch is only usable in a WSL environment as it relies on many pieces of proprietary closed source software that Microsoft is unwilling to open source. This patch does nothing but fragment the Linux ecosystem and encourage people to…

Look, I'm not saying saying we should "trust" Microsoft not to Embrace, Extend, Extinguish if they could - but they can't and they know it, so that's not their strategy. EEE was hinged entirely on the dominance of Windows and IE for the Extinguish phase. They won on desktop, but today most of the action has moved to mobile (where Windows lost completely to iOS and Android) and webservers (where Linux is massively dom…

The modern form of EEE is buying OSS devlopers, who increasingly make excuses for Microsoft and proprietary extensions.

The modern form of EEE is being platinum sponsor of the Linux Foundation and insert a CoC into the source tree.

Corporations don't want the "angry young OSS men" of the 1990s and early 2000s, who could be an actual threat.

Corporations want submissive, neutered and obedient developers.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#368

Post by lkap »

m12k wrote: post #346
skohan wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what WSL is about, trying to win back developers. That's why they bought Xamarin and Github. That's why they released VS Code. They're trying to win back developers by meeting them whereever they are, even if they know they are targeting platforms where Microsoft is not dominant and has no hope of becoming so. They're trying to make it feasible to target a linux webserver while developing on Windows. They're…

Could you explain to me what you think an Extinguish step would look like in that sequence? Because I don't think there is a realistic one, and I don't think Microsoft thinks so either.

The extinguish step is breaking the spirit of the FOSS developers.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#369

Post by pjmlp »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #336
m12k wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I'm not saying saying we should "trust" Microsoft not to Embrace, Extend, Extinguish if they could - but they can't and they know it, so that's not their strategy. EEE was hinged entirely on the dominance of Windows and IE for the Extinguish phase. They won on desktop, but today most of the action has moved to mobile (where Windows lost completely to iOS and Android) and webservers (where Linux is massively dom…

> In those domains, they are no longer the 500 pound gorilla in the room, they're the "hey, fellow kids" oldtimer trying to fit in and get in on a piece of the action. Said of a company which owns a market-shaping player in every layer of the stack: OS, directory, database, applications, development languages, source code repository, and the second-biggest cloud to host it all in. Given that mobile and web involve ab…

SV distortion field.

Re: DirectX is coming to the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#370

Post by pjmlp »

lkap wrote: post #368
m12k wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain to me what you think an Extinguish step would look like in that sequence? Because I don't think there is a realistic one, and I don't think Microsoft thinks so either.

The extinguish step is breaking the spirit of the FOSS developers.

They already did that to themselves by throwing away GPL.
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