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U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

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Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#361

Post by iamspoilt »

thisisnico wrote: post #212
jbarham wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also lived in Toronto and Vancouver. Did the obligatory move to work as a software dev in California and now live in Australia. The fact is that tech salaries in Canada are still much lower than the US while the cost of living, especially housing, is still very high, for Vancouver and Toronto in particular. Not to mention the lousy winters. Spend any time browsing /r/vancouver or /r/toronto and you'll quickly re…

I'm a tech worker in Canada and can agree that the tech salaries are nowhere close to the US. Housing is pretty high as well. The better paying jobs are in government.

I am also a tech worker and I second that. Currently paying 2000 per month in rent for a small 1bhk in downtown Toronto. 29 years of age with 4+ years of experience and a masters in CS from one of the top schools in Canada. I am making just north of 100k per year and not at all content with it. Interviewed at several companies in Toronto but failed negotiating something better because what I am being paid is above median for Data Engineer position here. I know I can make it much better in the States by all means and might consider moving there in future.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#362

Post by 52-6F-62 »

refurb wrote: post #99
Apocryphon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language barrier aside, Montréal seems like a hidden gem.

Montreal is an Anglophone city. Last I checked 80% were English speakers (not necessarily primary language). Now Quebec City is entirely different. I could see language being more challenging there. Honestly, Montreal is a hidden gem. Low cost housing, ton of culture and history. The only drawbacks can be the Québécois anti-immigrant and anti-business climate, but it’s not stifling, just more noticeable than the rest…

Tangential: Montreal is an awesome city. I like Toronto, but I think Montreal is a little more livable.

Bonus: Schwartz’s deli.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#363

Post by unishark »

what_ever wrote: post #348
unishark wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends how you look at it. The countries with the longest waits are the very ones who get the most green cards. Even if everyone from India was allowed to move to the front of the line, we'd simply end up with a very long wait for everyone.

It's an employment based GC not diversity based. The primary criteria should be how good the person is as an employee and not where they were born.

You mean if the govt could somehow assess quality? That would be nice if you have a good idea how to do that. But companies have two priorities: one is a high skill level and the other is lower pay.

If we simply removed country caps from the current system then it would be dominated by certain countries with the highest pay difference. The smartest scientist in Germany would be waiting in line behind hundreds of thousands of far-less-skilled programmers from developing countries willing to work for at-or-below market rates (in a hot market where salaries would otherwise be rising faster).

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#364

Post by wenc »

mabbo wrote: post #269
blaser-waffle wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently the exchange rate is .77, so $170k CAD is $128,025.30 USD. That's nothin to shake a stick at, but by NYC, DC, Seattle, LA, SF, etc. rates it is middling. Meanwhile, SDE2 at Amazon or others is like $200K USD, at least according to HN a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439144 Seattle is expensive as hell these days, but Vancouver still blows it out of the water, and Toronto isn't cheap either…

Sure, I'm not saying I couldn't make more if I left Toronto. As a Canadian, it would be easy for me to do that. Most of my office could easily get jobs in the USA paying more. Even those with potential visa issues have a much easier time once they're established in Canada. But we don't. The marginal increase in my pay is not enough for me to want to move to the USA. The anti-immigrant rhetoric and the laws that follo…

For what it's worth, Toronto is a way more interesting city than Seattle, DC and SF. It's probably comparable to Chicago in terms of interestingness (though Toronto's food scene is way more dynamic).

NYC and LA have Toronto beat in terms of culture, but NYC living is not that fun, and LA is pretty expensive too.

I would say Toronto is a local optimum.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#365

Post by wenc »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #302
fouc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salary would still be 128k usd in those cities too right?

Probably not Montreal -- they have a reputation for lower pay and higher taxes. But also considerably cheaper COL. As a friend from out that way put it, "its harder to be a consumer there, but easier to be a human".

> As a friend from out that way put it, "its harder to be a consumer there, but easier to be a human".

This rings true but it depends on what kind of human you are (I lived in Montreal for many years and enjoyed it there, but did not see myself living there long term). It's easier to be lower middle class, an artist, a student, a chef, a government employee, etc. in Montreal, but if you're at all an ambitious human, Montreal has less for you.

Apart from the universities (there's one that is highly-ranked internationally), it's not the kind of city that attracts go-getters (exceptions exist of course -- the tech scene these days, though still not comparable to major U.S. cities, is much different from when I was there).

Montrealers feel less of an economic struggle (more joie-de-vivre and love of the simple life, rents are controlled, CoL is low), but the existential struggle to fit in (if you're not pur-laine Quebecois), to find community (if you don't speak French at near native levels) and to find meaningful work (if you're at the top of your profession) is far more pronounced if you're ambitious.

Being fully human (for me) means being able to express myself in one's work and having good relationships. For many Americans, finding these things in Montreal may be more challenging than say a place like Toronto.

On the other hand, Montreal is a way more interesting place to vacation than Toronto.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#366

Post by wikibob »

jdright wrote: post #344
cmcd wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Unless you are living paycheck to paycheck stock is just as real as cash.

Or almost paycheck to paycheck, which is not as uncommon as one may think. And normally stock come with restrictions on when you can liquidate. This is basically money I don't have now and a promise in the future that may very well go wrong.

Normal valley vesting schedule is:

- A grant of a specific number of Restricted Stock Units (RSUs)

- Vesting over 4 years

- You get nothing for 12 months

- On the 12th month you get 25%. You can sell this immediately for cash if you choose

One of the following:

A. Each month you vest 1/36th of the remaining stock

B. Each quarter you vest 1/12th of the remaining stock You can sell this immediately for cash if you choose

Some terrible companies like Amazon have abusive vesting schedules such as 5% the first year, 15% the second year, then 40% the final two years.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#367

Post by angry_octet »

closeparen wrote: post #359
eplanit wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where "best" = "cheapest", true.

H1B salaries are public. For my employer anyway, the salaries paid to H1Bs are about the same as for anyone else at those levels.

Another way to look at it is that the salaries of other workers are pegged to the salaries of H1B workers.

There is a way to improve this situation -- allow H1B workers to easily change employers.

Alternatively, employing an H1B requires paying into a tuition scholarship fund. $50k/year sounds reasonable to me.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#368

Post by Apocryphon »

myth_drannon wrote: post #301
thbr99 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAQ govt is working on that. Soon will come a bill which mandates all employers to exclusively recruit French. Currently the ruling govt of Québec is anti immigrant and showing signs of a future separatist referendum. I won't be counting on Québec to stay in Canada in the future.

That's a very pessimistic view of Quebec. PQ/Separatism is irrelevant and last time they were in power they got booted out quickly. It's more likely that Montreal separates from ROQ than Quebec separates from ROC.

Ah, the city-state route:

https://www.reddit.com/r/montreal/comments/54yi1o/independen...

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#369

Post by brailsafe »

ripley12 wrote: post #280
brailsafe wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouverite also here. I am happy to see regular salary listings at much higher than they used to be, and if this is the reason, that's cool with me! I believe Microsoft and Amazon are opening huge secondary locations here soon.

This is a strange comment to read as a Vancouverite. Amazon’s has thousands of employees for years now, they had 600 jobs open last I checked. Microsoft’s main downtown office has one of the most prominent locations in the city, plus a huge sign. Those huge secondary locations are already here.

I meant secondary to the offices that you mentioned. So two main Vancouver offices and two Amazon Vancouver offices total.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#370

Post by brailsafe »

pitterpatter wrote: post #163
brailsafe wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouverite also here. I am happy to see regular salary listings at much higher than they used to be, and if this is the reason, that's cool with me! I believe Microsoft and Amazon are opening huge secondary locations here soon.

Microsoft has long since had offices in Vancouver. It's only a few hours drive from headquarters down in Redmond. And another choice for employees that lose the H1B lottery.

They are opening new offices in Van alongside their existing ones.
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