Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#361

Post by temac » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

Jamwinner wrote: post #272

rightbyte wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the global economy really need passenger planes? Tourism economies, sure, but I would guess most of the economy is dependent on trains, trucks and ships?

Yes, meetings still happen face to face for business to get done. Giving up air travel, is not a reasonable option for the world at large.

Giving up things like modern medicine would not be reasonable. Giving up air travel, or at least reducing it vastly, would be merely an inconvenience. Well yeah, giving up air travel entirely would be somehow a mess, but even there it is completely sure we can make it work.

In France the train is ~50 x more carbon efficient. We will not be able to keep emitting like crazy forever (we actually should have stopped completely already :/ ) , especially when reasonable alternatives exist (the train if going not too far, teleconferences, ...). If we believe in the markets, the price of an air ticket should be maybe 50x higher than what it is today, in order to stop the insane emissions. Alternatively there could be an authority who decide if we have a good reason to take the plane.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#362

Post by ilamont » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

pizlonator wrote: post #215

So I read somewhere than Muilenburg was the only engineer in the Boeing C suite. There were no pilots in the C suite. And this was part of the problem. The new CEO has a degree in accounting. I bet he’ll do great.

Four out of 15 of Boeing's Executive Council have engineering degrees. https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#363

Post by sjg007 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:34 PM UTC

leetrout wrote: post #310

vkou wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that idea for 401k matching. All the downsides of a pension [1], combined with all the downsides of a 401k[2], with none of the upsides of either! [1] If your employer goes belly up after you retire, you are screwed. [2] Because it's fixed contribution, as opposed to fixed payout, if you lived longer than you planned, you are screwed.

It could be better... in the University of North Carolina System you are FORCED to participate in 401(k) or the state pension and once you pick one you have to keep it throughout your employment.

State pension seems like the better way to go...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#364

Post by pcurve » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:34 PM UTC

pizlonator wrote: post #215

So I read somewhere than Muilenburg was the only engineer in the Boeing C suite. There were no pilots in the C suite. And this was part of the problem. The new CEO has a degree in accounting. I bet he’ll do great.

Perhaps the new chairman will do a great job... perhaps not. Time will tell. From optics perspective, it doesn't look very good to be putting current Blackstone private equity global head into Boeing CEO position.

https://www.blackstone.com/the-firm/our-people/person?person...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#365

Post by AdrianB1 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #233

pizlonator wrote: post #215

So I read somewhere than Muilenburg was the only engineer in the Boeing C suite. There were no pilots in the C suite. And this was part of the problem. The new CEO has a degree in accounting. I bet he’ll do great.

At some point we (society at large) are going to realize these fluffy c-level people are toxic and remove value from companies - then, ideally, we'll move back to a default of promoting internally.

In my company (similar size with Boeing, also manufacturing but in a different business sector) we mostly promote from within, but the CEO is always a marketing or sales guy and IT is reporting into the CFO, which has absolutely no knowledge about the area. Only the plant managers are former engineers promoted up, everyone above that level is former sales or marketing.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#366

Post by ilikehurdles » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #321

softwaredoug wrote: post #188

Former Boeing employee here[1]: I remember when the company decided to do all 401k matching in Boeing stock in 2009. It seemed like a sketchy, borderline unethical way to keep the stock price afloat. All to say I’m happy to have transitioned all my 401k years ago! [1] I worked in the defense industry. Nothing to do with planes: my company was acquired by Boeing and operated relatively independently.

I remember when the company decided to do all 401k matching in Boeing stock in 2009. I thought that was the norm? I've only worked at one public company and they did matching in company stock as well - I'd periodically sell it and reinvest so only about 20% of my holdings was in company stock. I wish I'd kept more in their stock since they've done quite well.

This is not the norm AFAIK. Matching at my previous companies has been proportionally into the mutual funds I had selected as part of my portfolio.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#367

Post by na85 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

petilon wrote: post #353

na85 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The plane tends to pitch up when accelerating. They all do this. You have giant engines on the underside of the wing; what else would you expect to happen when you throttle up at low airspeed?

And yet only the 737 Max needed a software fix

That's because the pitch-up behavior isn't actually the problem.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#368

Post by pseudalopex » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #323

pseudalopex wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean McDonnell Douglas? Muilenberg became CEO 18 years after the merger. I wouldn't expect him to exemplify Boeing's old culture. It was also only 6 months before the first 737 MAX flight.

Oops. Yes. His lineage is in the Boeing culture, not the McDonnell Douglas culture.

People can adapt to new cultures.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#369

Post by AdrianB1 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

doublement wrote: post #133

PaulHoule wrote: post #21

The big question for Boeing is how they will transition to a post-737 world. Until now, Boeing's business plan is that they will be building a starship for NASA in 2060, but you will still be stuck with a 737 on Southwest Airlines, a A320 on Jetblue, and never know that aviation could be better. The 737 throws off a lot of cash, but the single-aisle monoculture makes flying miserable. A 737 replacement will be expens…

> ...single-aisle monoculture makes flying miserable. What is it that people expect when they say flying is miserable? I expect safety, which is why I'll never get on a 737 MAX. Other than that, I just put sandwiches and snacks in my pocket, fill my water bottle, and in X hours I'm thousands of miles away. Air travel is actually pretty amazing.

Anything that does not feel like a can of sardines packed together. Train offers huge room, by comparison, for taller people like me economy is torture.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#370

Post by rumanator » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #167

rumanator wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out trying to squash the unions by moving to a different state helps show why the unions existed... Could you point out where you see a link between unions and the poor quality control that was observed in the plant?

> Could you point out where you see a link between unions and the poor quality control that was observed in the plant? Unions empower employees, and the quality control issues were getting raised by employees and getting ignored by management. Empowered employees could have more effectively pushed back. Also, the union employees were more qualified to do this type of work. However management gave instructions not to…

> Unions empower employees, and the quality control issues were getting raised by employees and getting ignored by management.

That assertion relies on a lot of hand waving and unrealistic claims. If the problem was that "objects" were being left everywhere in the planes that were being delivered, those objects weren't being left out by management while they were pushing paper in their office. Thus even if it's an operations problem caused by the lack of worker oversight then this means the problem is being created by the worker's lack of care and attention to detail.

Thim means its either a process problem, which unions have absolutely nothing to do with, or it's an incompetence problem which actually is addressed by the exact opposite of what a union does: increase worker scrutiny and quality control. I mean, when was the last time you heard a Union representative state "yes we are to blame for this... Better ramp up oversight and penalties for us screwing up our job."