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If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

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Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#361

Post by ruiseal »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #352
Symbiote wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overstating the difficulties here. The overwhelming majority of people use the same one or two computers (one at work, one at home), and don't mind using a laptop keyboard when travelling to a meeting or visiting a client. Anyway, since you're in Europe, don't you have a mixture of keyboards amongst your colleagues anyway? I certainly do -- I've noticed US, UK, Danish, French, Swedish, German and Russi…

Every case is different, that's my point. The keyboard match a very specific profile: geeky user typing a lot, with few occasions to be forced to switch. For me, as a trainer, I'm constantly on other's people machine. Thanks god they are all the same layout. As a freelancer dev I also can't be less productive for 3 months. As someone that travels a lot, I don't want to package a keyboard in my bag back. Planes make y…

I have quite an idiosyncratic keyboard layout and when I switch to use someone else's (normal) keyboard I'm puzzled for a moment but then switch into it. You might find you can do this easier than you think. Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#362

Post by baroffoos »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #268
baroffoos wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a long list of requirements and yet none of them apply to me as well as the other people I work with. As a software developer I always use the same computer and I have never needed to type on someone else's computer

So you don't share your computer with kids or the spouse (you have money or no spouse/kids), don't teach, don't do much on site user support, don't visit much clients, don't travel for pleasure or family much, don't use much virtual keyboards, are not at a university, etc. It's not a good or a bad thing, but it would be a mistake to generalize it.

No, I don't do those things. Sharing a computer is a fairly uncommon activity for me and most people I know. And even if it is something you need to do every now and then it is always possible to add an extra layer to your kb config which is the standard layout so other people can use it.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#363

Post by thefringthing »

samatman wrote: post #139
brandonmenc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

What an Ergodox lets me do is this: while standing, with good posture, I extend my arms, level with the ground, to where they comfortably and naturally want to be. Then, I put the keyboards there, adjust the desk up to that height, and put books under the monitor until the center is exactly level with my eyes. Trackball to the right. This is dramatically more comfortable than anything else I could be doing. It's hard…

> It's hard to convey how uncomfortable a straight keyboard is to someone who hasn't tried the alternative.

This is how I feel about the Qwerty keyboard layout.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#364

Post by K0SM0S »

Symbiote wrote: post #321
K0SM0S wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot! I've searched a bit based on what you said and sort of found a point of entry into Colemak. It's very enticing. I'm not a touch typist yet (use all fingers but quite inconsistently I suppose, yet 'fast enough' for me and without looking). Would it be sensible to make such a 'dramatic' layout change at the same time as the switch to a split ortholinear such as the EZ? It seems more straightforward to do…

I think it would be sensible to make all the changes together. If you already type e.g. T with the wrong hand, then it's annoying to start typing it with the correct hand (because it's on the other side of the split), then learn a new location with a new layout. (Do also consider Dvorak. The difference is not really worth an argument, but at least with a programmable mechanical keyboard one of the main advantages --…

Thanks for the advice/perspective; it definitely helped me decide how to proceed.

I'll definitely make all changes at once, then. I'll experiment with both Dvorak and Colemak for the letter keys.

Shorcuts are not much of a problem for me, extensive MMO raid gaming in my teen-20's made sure of that.

I miss AutoHotKey (AHK, windows program) very much, haven't found anything to remap keyboard inputs so extensively and granularly on Linux. KDE helps a lot, but nowhere near enough for my taste. I'm very excited for the EZ Oryx firmware tool in that regard, as it may replace AHK (and whatever it can't do yet, I can probably program, which is sweet).

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#365

Post by Aeolun »

im3w1l wrote: post #271
Aeolun wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be true for $2000 keyboards, but not for $300 ones.

Do you have objective data?

Unfortunately, no.

This is just based on my top of the head ‘when does the cost exceed the cost of labor and materials’ estimate.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#366

Post by roel_v »

Symbiote wrote: post #329
roel_v wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was an Ergodox keycap set with all printed keys. I used an Ergodox EZ from when it was delivered after the crowdfunding campaign, right until the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard delivered on its campaign, and I stuck with the UHK mostly because all keys are labeled. I post this every time there is a thread about the Ergodox in the hope there will be keycap sets available some day...

How about this? Or just search "Ergodox" on Ali Express. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957791164.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961243162.html The keys are not profiled (they are all the same shape, rather than having different heights for each row), so except for the F and J (which have homing dips) they are interchangeable. Alternatively, there are the geeky custom sets, like https://candykeys.com/group…

I actually put this in my Ali Express basket last week, but I'm still on the fence about actually ordering it or not. My experiences with Ali Express key caps are hit and miss. Then again I probably shouldn't be posting complaints about key cap sets online and then not try every option out there.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#367

Post by C1sc0cat »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #299
tracker1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of those situations where a store front or a friend with the item you're considering helps a lot. My favorite keyboard ever was a Model-M buckling spring keyboard... one year I broke a retainer clip for the spacebar while taking the key caps off to clean it... I decided to toss it, it was probably close to a decade old at that point. After that for about another decade, I bought a new keyboard each year, oft…

I have a Type M that I really must get a usb adaptor sorted out for. The Type M is the original IBM PC keyboard even better than the type F AT keyboards.

Just ordered one of these for my type M

https://www.hagstromelectronics.com/ke-xtusb-keyboard-encode...

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#368

Post by Symbiote »

rumanator wrote: post #349
clarry wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I've used a Kinesis Advantage Pro for some 10-15 years. I used Microsoft Natural Ergonomic for a year or two but it's not comparable. One can easily spend more in coffee over a few months than it costs to buy one of these somewhat better keyboards.

The kinesis keyboard costs more than some low-end laptops. It's hard to sell the idea that it's ok for a keyboard to cost more than a regular everyday work computer, even if it's price is expressed in coffee cups.

One of my colleagues (a PA, not a developer) has a "Rollermouse Red" which costs $400.

It's an easy sell when the doctor says "you need this to avoid time off work" or similar. More developers should take a preventative approach and invest in ergonomic hardware.

(I'm pretty sure my desk is about $500, and the chair probably similar.)

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#369

Post by BiteCode_dev »

ruiseal wrote: post #361
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every case is different, that's my point. The keyboard match a very specific profile: geeky user typing a lot, with few occasions to be forced to switch. For me, as a trainer, I'm constantly on other's people machine. Thanks god they are all the same layout. As a freelancer dev I also can't be less productive for 3 months. As someone that travels a lot, I don't want to package a keyboard in my bag back. Planes make y…

I have quite an idiosyncratic keyboard layout and when I switch to use someone else's (normal) keyboard I'm puzzled for a moment but then switch into it. You might find you can do this easier than you think. Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it.

> Try a custom keyboard at home and treat it like a hobby, only using it when you feel like it.

Probably the best idea so far, yes.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#370

Post by magduf »

ascar wrote: post #163
politelemon wrote: post #5

I'm simply a mechanical keyboard user, I have a few trusty Filcos that I use and I will sometimes buy a keycap set and wait 1 year for it[1]; I don't have the courage to build custom keyboards. However I do derive a vicarious pleasure looking at the build logs and end results shared by others, this post included. The two best places I've found to follow are the /r/mechanicalkeyboards[2] subreddit and the geekhack.org…

Maybe that's just me, but I get really annoyed by other people using (freakishly loud) mechanical keyboards in the office. It disrupts me from doing my work and some keyboards even penetrante my Bose QC ii with quiet music on...

I work in a lab where most people have mechanical keyboards (including myself). Yeah, it's a little noisy, but that's nothing compared to the volume at which people talk, and how they frequently have simultaneous unrelated loud conversations within the same small space.
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