Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#361

Post by gshdg » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #125

Glyptodon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart has very similar results to Amazon, just not quite as much, and limiting results to Walmart.com helps a tiny bit more. So I don't agree there. You're mostly right about Target, they pretty much only sell stuff that they carry or brand themselves, but the other side to it for Target is that often you can't find what you want there at all - they have a pretty limited selection, and in any case the stuff they br…

Walmart partners with their suppliers because they have a direct liability for selling dangerous or counterfeit goods. Amazon's lawyers try their best to shift all liability from themselves to their suppliers. If I buy a product from Walmart that is faulty and injures me, liability falls on Walmart.

And Target’s website is painfully short on information about each product. To the point that sometimes there isn’t even enough info to tell what version it is so you can look up more details elsewhere!

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#362

Post by gshdg » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #264

post_break wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now the difference is it has to last long? My $80 ozone machine has been going for 2 years straight now without issue. The whole point of my comment is that just because it's no name doesn't mean it's junk, and we should be so lucky to get some choice. I can get it delivered to my door tomorrow. Hell go back 20 years and I wouldn't even know where to buy an ozone machine or ultrasonic cleaner like I have now.

I'm not saying things need to last a lifetime, but that I have no way to tell what might last two or three years vs zero. Or what "works" rather than works. I'm all for choice, but choice that's just rolling expensive dice isn't really choice. It's buying your $80 ozone machine and getting a lottery ticket instead. Will you win the grand prize and have something that lasts 10 years or will you get something that "wor…

Ugh, two or three years is decent now? Within my lifetime you’d expect a small appliance to last 20 years.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#363

Post by Dumblydorr » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #325

dv_dt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is back to the time of robber barons of industry, and so too is the lawlessness of many of the industry practices, where we are in the same state where technology and scale of organization are outrunning the philosophical theories of government operation to regulate them.

Amazon/Alibaba is making money pulling millions of chinese people out of poverty. The inequality equation is the same as normal, we're just not the focus of economic production at the moment. Comparing a normal western job to a chinese wage & lifestyle makes us look like the 1%. Comparing the average westerner who sells to 10k customers to bezos who sells to hundreds of millions makes him look like the bourgeoisie. T…

What about the counterfeits and lead levels in toys? Those are two major issues that you glided right past in your non chalance

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#364

Post by friendlybus » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 3:00 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #363

friendlybus wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon/Alibaba is making money pulling millions of chinese people out of poverty. The inequality equation is the same as normal, we're just not the focus of economic production at the moment. Comparing a normal western job to a chinese wage & lifestyle makes us look like the 1%. Comparing the average westerner who sells to 10k customers to bezos who sells to hundreds of millions makes him look like the bourgeoisie. T…

What about the counterfeits and lead levels in toys? Those are two major issues that you glided right past in your non chalance

My non-chalance covered that reasonably well in the not buying from them and recognizing that the lack of quality is sinking their company.

This isn't an inequality thing, mansa musa was more unequally rich than bezos. It's just quality control.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#365

Post by dannyw » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 3:38 PM UTC

CrazyStat wrote: post #360

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to filter by this though? Surely Amazon has a history of who bought what from who - why not make it an option for consumers (apart from the obvious fact that Amazon makes money letting people sell shit on their platform)? Amazon could easily solve this problem but they've decided it's more profitable to let it fester. Whether or not it's a good decision in the long run, the same way Sea…

> Surely Amazon has a history of who bought what from who They don't necessarily. Amazon combines items from different sellers together in their warehouses, and doesn't sort them out when picking orders to ship. So if I send them a high quality doohickey to sell with FBA, a customer who orders my doohickey might actually receive Mr. Cheapo's knock-off doohickey because as far as Amazon is concerned they're the same t…

Yeah, and AFAIK, Amazon.com itself do not opt out.

The fact that Joe Q Public can make a marketplace account, ship a crate of counterfeit stuff, and have that be sold to buyers of “amazon.com” is absurd and explains the counterfeit problem.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#366

Post by remotecool » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

cwp wrote: post #335

download13 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a more subtle version of this, where the seller leaves the listing the same, but once enough positive reviews have accumulated they move production to a cheaper factory and use cheaper materials. So you might see older reviews for a pair of boots that say they're made from sturdy materials with good stitching, followed by later reviews saying that they didn't match the advertised sizing and pictures, or…

I wonder how much of this is because Amazon started out selling books and CDs. Those things don't really have quality issues, and are pretty much fungible. Now, decades into their "everything store" strategy, they're still trying to treat everything like books.

I have had a book business for the last 8 years and in the last 3, there has been a massive increase in counterfeit books.

The biggest issue is that there isn't any way to really know if it's a counterfeit unless you send them to the publisher. Many are so good, you can't really tell the difference unless you really know what to look for.

I tried this once and in response they sent me a cease and desist letter claiming I was knowingly selling counterfeits.

They went away after I got my attorney involved, but it isn't really helping the publishers because I still don't really know how to spot counterfeits, besides the obvious signs.

The publishers really want to get rid of the secondary markets because they don't make any money on it...so they are using attorneys to squash it instead.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#367

Post by rahimnathwani » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #273

tracker1 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because amazon doesn't add seller stickers/labels it's nearly impossible for them to even determine the seller if it's "Fulfilled by Amazon" ... I tend to stick to the "Sold by Amazon" or "Sold and shipped by MFG" because at least with Amazon, returns become easy and/or I trust orders from MFG slightly more than otherwise.

Even when something by is sold by amazon, you could get something shipped to them by a third party seller. They keep all products with the same ID in one area, and pick whatever is on top. If I started using FBA and supplying an item, it’ll go in the same box and chances are more likely an “sold by amazon.com” will sell my product, and I’ll sell an “amazon.com” product. See the problem?

"They keep all products with the same ID in one area"

No they don't. Google 'random stow' and you'll find articles about how Amazon stores incoming items. They are stowed somewhat randomly, but scanned as they are stowed. So the system knows where to find each unit again, and can use that to optimize picking paths.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#368

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

download13 wrote: post #210

habosa wrote: post #77

My favorite Amazon scam is the Amazon Ship of Theseus[0]. You sell a product, normally a cheap electronic, and build up a decent corpus of positive reviews. A good example is a USB-C cable or something. Then you decide you want to sell a new product in a more competitive subcategory, like Bluetooth Headphones. You then take the _existing_ listing and change it piece by piece. First the pictures, then the title, then…

There's also a more subtle version of this, where the seller leaves the listing the same, but once enough positive reviews have accumulated they move production to a cheaper factory and use cheaper materials. So you might see older reviews for a pair of boots that say they're made from sturdy materials with good stitching, followed by later reviews saying that they didn't match the advertised sizing and pictures, or…

I've experienced this (generally over decades, occasionally a few years) with brick-and-mortar and/or mail-order retailers (I virtually never shop Amazon). So yes, the phenomenon happens.

And it's insidious. I've flat stopped patronizing those retailers. Shopping is not an enjoyable experience. I'm wiling to pay modest premiums for quality (bargain-hunting is sifting through tons of junk for exceptionally rare gems), but I won't pay premium for junk.

The long-term cost has to be considerable, I would think.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#369

Post by greggman2 » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #87

Glyptodon wrote: post #64

Forget counterfeits for a second. Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress. But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup. But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation…

What could the problem be, then? Do we point fingers at capitalism? As far as I see it, this is the logical conclusion to capitalism and free markets. Manufacturers produce a product and sell it to many suppliers who all rebrand and mark up in their own ways, competing with each other for market share. As consumers, we are presented with basically only this option because the suppliers have all won the race to the bo…

stop buying

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#370

Post by annoyingnoob » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

erichocean wrote: post #302

annoyingnoob wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with the first part, Amazon is very much like going to AliExpress lately. I search and all I find is cheap products from China - I don't find any brands I've heard of that I could get at any local retailer. Its like Amazon.com is redirecting to Amazon.cn

Amazon.cn has been shut down.[0] [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/amazon-china-marketplace-clo...

Hmm, seems like Amazon.cn didn't go away but merged into Amazon.com. The scary part in that article is that Amazon.cn lost out to competitors with more products, Amazon.com could gain even more of these crap products. This situation certainly decreases the value of Amazon for me, if I can't find what I'm looking for then I'll go somewhere else.