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Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

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Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#361

Post by knzhou »

alasdair_ wrote: post #206
cloakandswagger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely, but this whole debacle has highlighted what seems to be hypocrisy in the general public's reaction to this. Remember when The Daily Stormer got kicked off CloudFlare and a whole host of other platforms, to the point that no one would take their business and they were effectively censored? The average take on that seemed to be a mix of "Free speech doesn't apply to private companies" and "…

Karl Popper explained in detail why it’s perfectly rational to praise tolerance and still be intolerant of intolerance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance “if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”

That's a facile response, because it works for everybody. Everybody intolerant thinks of themselves as a fundamentally tolerant person, whose hand has regrettably been forced by the unforgivable actions of the enemy tribe. From the other side, you look like the intolerant one.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#362

Post by modriano »

manicdee wrote: post #316
datapunk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you respond when a character from your top grossing game is turned into a political meme? This is what Blizzard has been learning this week. How do you handle potentially thousands of attendees, at your organization's biggest annual event, turning it into a platform for political protest agaisnt your biggest growing market? There's three possible events: BlizzCon is canceled. Extremely unlikely but possible. B…

It’s only a “no win” if you consider losing business with an autocratic nation responsible for mass violation of human rights to be “losing”.

In the US, public companies "have an obligation to their shareholders to be profitable", and China is a gigantic market.

The rules that govern the economy aren't optimized to create equity or equality. They're optimized to push companies to maximize profit and minimize scarcity.

Without proper regulation, the companies that optimize for profit will scale much faster than the companies that optimize for ethics or equality. Consumer pressure is somewhat effective in the short term, but it never lasts.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#363

Post by phy6 »

microcolonel wrote: post #38
paulddraper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are between a rock and hard place. It's a total no-win for them now. (Queue morbid curiosity.)

Well, let's hope the kowtow to genocidal fascist dictatorship option is clearly the more painful of two painful paths.

Have you seen Blizzard's official Weibo account apology to China? It seems like kowtowing still seems to be their plan to get into that sweet sweet mobile game market.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#364

Post by beezischillin »

datapunk wrote: post #55
cjbprime wrote: post #10

The huge question here is what's going to happen at BlizzCon in two weeks. There'll be 40,000+ attendees, cameras everywhere, there are usually Q&A panels, homemade signs for player support, cosplay, everything. How can you host BlizzCon when you're terrified of political speech?

How do you respond when a character from your top grossing game is turned into a political meme? This is what Blizzard has been learning this week. How do you handle potentially thousands of attendees, at your organization's biggest annual event, turning it into a platform for political protest agaisnt your biggest growing market? There's three possible events: BlizzCon is canceled. Extremely unlikely but possible. B…

I suspect what they're trying to do is to carve out some sort of minimal response that doesn't anger anyone too much and hope that people forget about the whole thing soon. That's generally what always happened. I don't think I've seen a boycott that lasted long enough to hurt any of these companies too much. Maybe this one's different? I don't know. I do know that there are movements that are now consciously trying to drag them into the middle of the political issue to actively get them banned.

They were at the wrong place in the wrong time, managing to fan some pretty bad flames and accidentally became a symbol people on the non-extreme ends of both political isles can agree with: the disingenuous corporation putting money above your freedom / others' human rights.

All I suspect is, with each atrocity during the protests, Blizzard's name is going to come up in peoples' minds, even more so than other brands that messed up. It'll be interesting to follow this.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#365

Post by 1propionyl »

knicholes wrote: post #360
netsharc wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly in many places it still is political isn't it? Like Russia, China, Utah... Since homophobic bigots run the places and think it's ok to oppress things they aren't comfortable with...

You name two countries and then an obscure state. What's the deal with Utah?

Well, it might be that it is effectively a theocracy because a church with a strongly enforced normative code of "morality" controls access to political levers (practically requiring membership for anyone who wants to effect political change of any kind), and that church exerts a 10-15% tax on its members?

Which it then uses (in parallel to the "official" state government) to invest in projects and consolidate its own economic and political power?

Just spitballing though. It's certainly not as bad as Russia or China, but it's not an entirely unfounded inclusion on that list.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#366

Post by dependenttypes »

mintplant wrote: post #289
falcolas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps not cleanly stated, but true. Blizzard quite explicitly catered to the LGBTQ+ demographic recently via an Overwatch promotion, a move that can easily be construed as political speech (and which was voluntarily censored by Blizzard in Russia and China). They stuck their feet into this arena, and are now realizing that making political statement can affect their revenue in both directions.

So, what, as an LGBTQ+ person, I'm not allowed to be represented in media? Because my existence is "political"?

Do you think that there are groups of people that should not be allowed to be represented in the media?

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#367

Post by Rebelgecko »

mintplant wrote: post #289
falcolas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps not cleanly stated, but true. Blizzard quite explicitly catered to the LGBTQ+ demographic recently via an Overwatch promotion, a move that can easily be construed as political speech (and which was voluntarily censored by Blizzard in Russia and China). They stuck their feet into this arena, and are now realizing that making political statement can affect their revenue in both directions.

So, what, as an LGBTQ+ person, I'm not allowed to be represented in media? Because my existence is "political"?

When Blizzard says "this character is gay in America but in other countries he is straight", it seems like inauthentic pandering instead of actual representation.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#368

Post by alex_c »

darklajid wrote: post #343
alex_c wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context is important. Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. Specifically, last year Blizzard disappointed fans by announcing a mobile Diablo game that no one really asked for and that many felt is squarely aime…

> Context #1: there has been a years-long trend for Western entertainment media (movies, games) to cater to the Chinese market. This ranges from voluntary censorship that seems odd in the West (no skeletons?) to more sensitive topics like sexuality. I .. take your word for it. I'm not sure what the "no skeletons?" references and I'd argue that sexuality is already a pretty weird thing if you - say - take the US and E…

Blizzard absolutely has the right to punish Blitzchung for his statement, and I am sure he expected and accepted there would be consequences. The issue is, was the punishment:

1) Strictly because Blizzard did not want unauthorized political statements on its video game stream - perfectly understandable, or

2) Partly because Blizzard feared retaliation from China, and acted more harshly than it normally would.

We can't know for sure from the outside, but context suggests 2 is more likely.

This is where the LGBTQ thing comes in. It's not central to the controversy but it is one small piece of the puzzle. It's an instance, in the past, where Blizzard has calculated it is worth it to take a public stance on a non-gaming related topic.

Now we would not normally expect Blizzard, out of nowhere, to take a public stance on the HK protests. But Blitzchung has forced them to consider the issue internally at least. We now know they have calculated, unlike LGBTQ, that it is not worth it to take any public stance on HK even though it might be the only way to disprove 2) and repair PR damage at home. Their silence doesn't prove anything but it is one more clue.

Also, regarding skeletons:

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-deal-with-skeletons-being-ba...

It's a silly example, and I don't have a big issue with localized versions of games or movies customized for local norms. But it becomes interesting when US content starts to self-censor at home to avoid losing money in the Chinese market. For years American entertainment has been some of the most effective propaganda globally, now American citizens are indirectly starting to be exposed to Chinese propaganda (by avoiding content or topics) in American entertainment. It's only tangential to the Blizzard situation but I think it's part of why it struck such a nerve.

This is why I find this mess so fascinating - it goes far beyond just the statement on the stream and it ties together so many different threads into a perfect storm for Blizzard.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#369

Post by LanceH »

darklajid wrote: post #310
falcolas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps not cleanly stated, but true. Blizzard quite explicitly catered to the LGBTQ+ demographic recently via an Overwatch promotion, a move that can easily be construed as political speech (and which was voluntarily censored by Blizzard in Russia and China). They stuck their feet into this arena, and are now realizing that making political statement can affect their revenue in both directions.

I don't understand the line of reasoning here. If Blizzard wants to (appear to, if we doubt their sincerity) support a political cause, that's a decision by the company. I agree that they should expect a potential fallout for that. But how is that related to Blizzard sponsoring (paying for casters, production and using their branding) content where random individuals make their own political statements (imho: present…

In the US, if a player won the tournament and went political during the post match interview the likely response would be to switch to a commentator and that would be the end of it. Instead they went nuclear on him, banning him, clawing back winnings, going silent on the issue until finally responding on a Friday night.

There is a big difference between "not supporting" a political rant, which could be accomplished by turning off his mic and what Blizzard chose to do.

Re: Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event

#370

Post by LanceH »

Copyrighted wrote: post #194
datapunk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you respond when a character from your top grossing game is turned into a political meme? This is what Blizzard has been learning this week. How do you handle potentially thousands of attendees, at your organization's biggest annual event, turning it into a platform for political protest agaisnt your biggest growing market? There's three possible events: BlizzCon is canceled. Extremely unlikely but possible. B…

They'll either avoid talking about China or attempt to "address" attendees concerns. If they do "address" attendees concerns it'll be something superficial to try and tide people over while they ride out their spate of bad PR. Like they're doing right now with Blitzchung and reducing his ban to six months which is still outrageous.

They would have to announce Diablo 5 to distract anyone.
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