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The China Cultural Clash

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361–370 of 379 posts

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#361
post #357

Anti-China propaganda machinery is in full force today. So many anti-China propaganda articles in a technical news site. This isn't what I was expecting when I joined Hacker News. I was expecting to see Hacker news, not this rubbish that has littered the front page today. I am even ready to be removed from this site today. I am not even Chinese. I have never visited China but I am able to see anti-China bullshit that…

You're probably looking at this from outside the mainstream Western perspective which is, for demographic reasons, inevitably the majority view here. I've posted a ton about this today. Perhaps it would help to review some of those posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21199884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=211958…

Hi Dan. Is it okay for me to post? It's been about a year.

I've tried asking through official channels for a couple months, so I thought I'd ask casually here.

I don't care about my old accounts. This one is fine.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#362
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably looking at this from outside the mainstream Western perspective which is, for demographic reasons, inevitably the majority view here. I've posted a ton about this today. Perhaps it would help to review some of those posts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21199884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=211958…

Hi Dan. Is it okay for me to post? It's been about a year. I've tried asking through official channels for a couple months, so I thought I'd ask casually here. I don't care about my old accounts. This one is fine.

I apologize for some of my past behavior. It was unfair towards you. I see where you're coming from with respect to community cohesion and some of the tough decisions you have to make.

I have no interest in causing friction. I am here to nerd out about AI and Lumen. E.g. https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1169798426088939520

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#363

I also have mostly been a supporter, at least in spirit, of China. I enjoyed traveling there and I respect their tech abilities. My support has changed, and I can’t help but think that this is about the ego of Chinese leadership, since it seems like they are making some poor decisions. Perhaps even stupid decisions. I also wonder what the effect of President Trump has had in the poor decision making process of Chines…

>I can’t help but think that this is about the ego of Chinese leadership It is and isn't. I grew up in China and I think the Chinese government is overacting to this NBA statement. If the Chinese fans decide to boycott NBA that's their choice and rights, but the government should not ban NBA in China. At the same time, I am frustrated to see so much misconception and lack of empathy in the discussions here. The terri…

Simply not reporting on it as solution for police brutality, delegitimizing the protestors, right after complaining about lack of empathy.

We'll be probably seeing more of that rather than less: http://arnogruen.net/the_need_to_punish_--_article_by_arno_g...

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#364
post #41

I see lots of Anti-China sentiment. I would be very careful here into not falling into their deliberate trap of making "The West" China's "Enemy". China in its current totalitarian form needs an "Enemy" to survive, without it, it has to deal with difficult internal questions which will force it to adapt and change - and this what scares them. Totalitarian governments rely on distraction and misdirection of the popula…

"If you ignore your bully he'll stop bullying you"

Have you ever tried that somewhere but high school? That's ridiculous.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're considering China to be a new benevolent economic actor? Can you explain what behavior you consider "benevolent"?

If you think unparalleled manufacturing expertise at unparalleled prices isn't an economic gain for the entire world you need to open your biased eyes wider. Yes the west and china are economic rivals. This does not mean China has zero economic benefit to the world. To not see this is utter blindness.

I do not question their economic activity. Whether that's been for the good of anyone but China and the world's billionaires... I'm not so sure.

Either way it wasn't done for the benefit of the world. China started manufacturing because they wanted to gain economic power and arrive in the 21st century.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think that this is about the ego of Chinese leadership It is and isn't. I grew up in China and I think the Chinese government is overacting to this NBA statement. If the Chinese fans decide to boycott NBA that's their choice and rights, but the government should not ban NBA in China. At the same time, I am frustrated to see so much misconception and lack of empathy in the discussions here. The terri…

"I want to point out that Morey's HK tweet is out of line" Which part of freedom of speech is still unclear even after supposedly you've "lived in the US for over a decade" ??? "and doesn't deserve NBA's endorsement." The NBA did not endorse nor reject Morey's words.

The tweet "Fight for Freedom. Stand with Hong Kong" is the exact slogan violent protestors in HK uses every day. It's not "freedom of speech" but an implication of HK independence. You cannot take the words literally. I will give you another analogy -- no people in China understands why "All lives matter" offends the black community in the US, because why on earth would anyone object to all lives matter, right? Do Chinese NBA fans have legit rights to be offended by his tweet, I personally think so. Does this legitimize Chinese government's NBA ban, absolutely not.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Westerners act like they really care about us and we are some kids who refuse to take their meds. Some of you genuinely care about us and I can appreciate that, but as a whole, I find the Westerners' altitude towards us disturbing. Reasons: 1. Knows very little about China except from cherry-picked news by Western media, but pretending to know everything about us, better than us. This makes many of your arguments bas…

You're equating Americans with all Westerners, claim nobody criticized the US wars of aggression, and so on. In the end, you claim being pushed closer towards the CCP by what random people say on the interwebs, really? Do you have the faintest idea how many European countries talk shit about Germany and Germans 24/7? Only German Neo-Nazis pay close attention to any of that, nobody else would use it as excuse to vote…

I don't care how you, as an individual, think. Collectively, Westerners make themselves repulsive to the Chinese people. This isn't about some crazy people's online comments, it's how your mainstream media and your governments have represented you. A Chinese living in the US doesn't need to read HN to learn that the US is hostile towards China and the Europeans are nodding in the back seat. HN is suppose to be filled with educated people but the number of questionable comments about China is still through the roof, you can imagine how twitter is welcoming the eager, curious Chinese who have just learned how to use VPN and want some fresh air.

> ... equating Americans with all Westerners

In the context of China-related issues, I don't see the problem. The Europe usually just repeats what the US says, or stays quiet. You should be thankful that the US drew most of the fire, and most Chinese still have very good impressions about Germany.

> ... nobody criticized the US wars of aggression

I didn't say that, don't put words in my mouth. Also, a few people criticizing them for a while is far from enough. The US even made movies to whine about how invading other countries and killing those people makes their soldiers mentally sick, and I didn't see many Westerners boycotting these movies.

> ... talk shit about Germany and Germans ... nothing a foreigner says about Germany

Oh, so the West has never done any actions that upset us, in our face? The trade war is just a hallucination. The US has never bombed our embassy in Belgrade, send their aircraft carriers roaming around China and deploy missiles around China that aim at us. Do I really need to give more examples of these actions? Can you still stay so calm if China does these to Germany? Also, I still remember vividly how you Germans welcomed and supported Rebiya Kadeer. Imagine if China did the same to Osama bin Laden.

Even if I take a step back and only talk about what you say about us, you privileged Westerners can never imagine how we feel when all the mainstream media go against you, and how upset it is when it's perfectly OK to keep making jokes about how we have tiny penises even in the PC culture. Speaking of PC culture, I thought you agree that words hurt? Either that's a lie, or it's acceptable to hurt the Chinese using words.

> ... control of the whole planet

Bourgeoisies will lick anyone's butthole, as long as this person or entity is powerful and rich. I thought you are proud of your superior capitalism? Also, it is hilarious that a Westerner is accusing China for wanting to control the planet, could you please remind me how many oversea military bases does the US and China each have?

> ... I don't think you fully grasp it

I don't think you fully grasp how much we fear about your "freedom" either. I mean hey, the best CCP propaganda in what the West has done to the Middle East, your governments are all secretly pro-CCP ;)

> One innocent person who gets tortured outweighs even a thousand billion people who look the other way.

Well said! Now tell me what sanctions will the EU implement against the US for all the innocent people tortured by the US? I must remind you that I didn't say what the CCP did are fine, I just hate your double standard.

> ... perspective of serious Westerners

If you really are serious, you would have tried to learn more about China and made a lot fewer questionable actions. I mean, you put yourself in the position of a doctor, so it's your responsibility to get to know the patient.

> What precisely are you even disagreeing with?

I was referring to the fact that whenever I say anything good about the CCP or something that contradicts with what the Western mainstream media claims to be true, someone will jump out and say I have been brainwashed and I know less about China than they do. For what I am disagreeing with, if the three reasons I listed above still doesn't sum it up, let me give you a metaphor:

Say your friend is sick, this person is sneezing, has a running nose and is unhappy. You are worried about this but you have a solution: whenever you are unhappy, you play some video games and it cheers you up. So you skipped the first two symptoms and start to tie your friend's hands to a video game controller using duct tape. Your friend isn't denying the illness but is probably disagreeing with your solution.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#368
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd just watch via VPN, if other bans are any indication. Of course not everyone knows how to use a VPN, but the NBA becoming unavailable might be an impetus to figure it out.

I read an article recently that made it seem as if VPN wasn't the panacea for GFW that westerner's think it is. Apparently the GFW throttles encrypted connections heavily outside of normal business hours.

I was honestly had no problems reading about Tieneman Square on Wikipedia while walking around Tieneman Sqaure last year during National Week. The thing is most of the people who know about this stuff already do and the regular Joe on the street isn't going to put work into it. The people on the ground are a lot of the time patriotic to a fault. It reminded me a lot of the non-questuoning patriotism that permeates midwest America. And honestly I got the idea they desperately want to be America (*with Chinese characteristics;) ).That being said using a VPN only is not the best solution. A suite of software solutions working in concert is a much better route. Certain VPN providers are better than others given their size or implementation but even still the large ones see huge reductions in reliability during patriotic times (i.e. National Week etc). Best to RYO or use a concert of software implementations.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#369
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese consulate in Houston put out a statement condemning the tweet. Okay, perhaps. But that could also be them jumping on a popular bandwagon. I'm just raising this doubt because I've seen, many times on sites like this, enormous panics over supposed Chinese government actions, which actually boil down to totally innocuous actions from individuals. The most common cognitive bias when the West discusses the E…

> Okay, perhaps. But that could also be them jumping on a popular bandwagon. How could there be a bandwagon when twitter is banned in China (so no one could have ever seen the tweet), and immediately after the tween all Chinese social media blocked any posts related to the Houston Rockets? There was zero way for anyone in China to even know it was a thing or to be angry.

A lot of Chinese people have Twitter and Facebook accounts FWIW.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#370
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you're not a Chinese citizen and you are not on any forum that they frequent. I find it truly stupid that Chinese government intervened, but if you think this move wasn't popular in China you're dead wrong.

If nobody is allowed to express support for Hong Kong on Chinese social media do we really know what their sentiments are?

I would love to truly know the sentiments, statistically, of what the Chinese citizens perspective on HK was. I've asked a few people but they dont want to talk about it or dont seem to really care. A lot of Chinese I know are nationalistic but dont care about the day to day to news. Plus I imagine the bulk of people would only know whatever news they were plugged into. It somewhat analogous to Americans who I talk to and wonder how they came to the conclusions they did and then it all makes sense when they tell me they are only plugged into one network or media outlet. And both parties dont want to look deeper at all and have no desire to. It's a shame.
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