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Birds Are Vanishing from North America

nytimes.com

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Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#361

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

fjabre wrote: post #13
Tepix wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the only one who brought them up so far and you don't seem to have been downvoted.

Thats true. Reddit seems to be more infested with the pro monsanto crowd. Many of their arguments sound very legitimate as in - try feeding the human race some other way type arguments. But then we must consider this ongoing mass extinction event which seems intimately tied to the use of pesticides and herbicides that apparently, according to the experts, are not harmful to unintended insect populations. It’s hard to…

It's not hard to know, just people being lazy to do their own research.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#362

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

tylerpachal wrote: post #7

(serious) Is there any hope? Its just one problem after another (probably because everything is linked). What are the chances that we will get our act together or be able to engineer ourselves out of all of these problems?

Chances are slim to none. Once permafrost goes there is no stopping it. It's already starting to go...

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#363

Post by PeterStuer »

PeterStuer wrote: post #262
abootstrapper wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better solutions to climate change. But access to solid sex education, free birth control, and legal and safe abortions would go far to aid in a lot of issues, over population included. It wouldn’t even require any draconian measures, just give people the tools for proper family planning.

You realize that the latest global 2050 population estimates while being more or less unchanged in total (11B+), had an upward prediction for Africa as a direct consequence of the Trump administration's changes in support for birth control programs in the region?

Sorry for the missed date. Obviously this was the 2100 projection, not the 2050 one. reference: JPFP The Japan Parliamentarians Federation for Population NEWS LETTERNo.60 August 2017 “World Population Prospects: Have their continuous upward revisions ended?"

http://www.apda.jp/pdf/e_newsletter/enews_no60_en.pdf

"Furthermore although Africa’s total fertility rate (TFR) is falling if only moderately, it is still high, at around 5.0. This means that alongside promoting economic development in Africa, it will be prudent to strengthen support for expanding RH services there, including family planning. A source of concern for Africa’s fertility rates from now on, however, is that the reactivation by the Trump Administration ofthe Mexico City Policyis an obstacle to any such strengthening. This decision taken by the U.S. will have a major impact on Africa’s population issues, and policies will be needed to counter that."

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#364

Post by IntricateJake »

socialist_coder wrote: post #359
IntricateJake wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Economic actors all acting rationally in their own best interest >Capitalism is the root cause here. That is not how capitalism works, it works by providing value to the greater whole of people, that's how it obtains money. If a business isn't doing something we like, we don't purchase products, services, advice, etc. or at least that's how it should work. The bigger problem is why do we value the wrong things? or w…

> The bigger problem is why do we value the wrong things? or why are we unable to develop better solutions? Because capitalism is based on exchange value, not use value. The exchange value of keeping CO2 out of the air is $0. The exchange value of keeping bees and birds alive is $0. Neither of those things have any exchange value, but they have a massive amount of use value. There is a huge disconnect there. Explore…

> Explore marxism / socialism

Why? Are you such a fool to think this would actually work? Forcing people to provide value NEVER works and it NEVER will. Give up and come up with an alternative solution

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#365

Post by sedachv »

leftyted wrote: post #328
sedachv wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Chapter 6 of the "Population Bomb," titled "What If I'm Wrong?": "To cover this contingency, I would like to propose an analogue to Pascal's famous wager… If I'm right, we will save the world. If I'm wrong, people will still be better fed, better housed, and happier,thanks to our efforts. Will anything be lost if it turns out later that we can support a much larger population than seems possible today? Suppose w…

> To cover this contingency, I would like to propose an analogue to Pascal's famous wager… If I'm right, we will save the world. If I'm wrong, people will still be better fed, better housed, and happier,thanks to our efforts. Thanks to our efforts ...how arrogant to claim future responsiblity for our success at feeding and housing 8 billion people. Of course our present ability to do that has nothing to do with The P…

The fall in fertility in developed countries (whose populations are responsible for the majority of resource use) definitely had a lot to do with it.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#366

Post by Kaiyou »

inimino wrote: post #352
Kaiyou wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and prefer a world with fewer species. Insects and birds going away is something I'm really happy about. For example, I hate mosquitoes and the noise birds make. Also not fond of birds defecating wherever.

Is this satire?

No, but you thinking it would be shows your biases/filterbubble.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#367

Post by Kaiyou »

socialist_coder wrote: post #340
Kaiyou wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hardly the fault of capitalism that lots of people do not believe in human responsibility for climate change. I wouldn't advise to force people into complying with your vision.

The point here is that it does't matter if they believe or not. Capitalism does not let them stay true to their beliefs. Businesses that act in a sustainable way will not be as competitive as businesses that don't. So, it's very hard to be sustainable in a capitalism system that doesn't "price in" the externalities of the natural world that we've been taking for granted. You can use the same example for globalization…

That's still not the fault of capitalism, but of the people opting for the cheapest solution. To introduce change, some kind of force would be required, which I strongly advise against. As soon as the self-interest of all actors is concerned things will change on their own.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#369

Post by inimino »

Kaiyou wrote: post #324
Angostura wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. I don't believe in an natural ideal state, however I can distinguish between a planet with a large number of species living in a biologically diverse set of ecosystems; an a biologically impoverished planet with fewer species and biomes. I think it is fair to say that complexity and variety is a objectively good thing and that humanity's action causing a mass extinction event is objectively bad.…

I disagree and prefer a world with fewer species. Insects and birds going away is something I'm really happy about. For example, I hate mosquitoes and the noise birds make. Also not fond of birds defecating wherever.

Fortunately[1], those annoying birds and insects are going away[2] like never before!

  [1] for you
  [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollinator_decline
Are humans starving to death also something you'd be really happy about? Because if insects and birds go away, who is going to pollinate all that shit you plant and expect to be able to eat? Also not fond of your cities and farms pouring your waste into the oceans wherever.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#370

Post by Kaiyou »

inimino wrote: post #368
Kaiyou wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but you thinking it would be shows your biases/filterbubble.

And you expecting it to be read straight shows yours.

I wrote it tongue in cheek, but I'm serious. Being surrounded by people that think like you makes me aware of that type of attitude.
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