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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#361

Post by proy24 »

kfrzcode wrote: post #165
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I'm hesitant to post anything, anywhere, just because I don't want to offend anyone by expressing an earnest opinion. I think the trend's moving more quickly towards self-censorship than anyone realizes. How can we even quantify that? Those who censor just disappear? What stands out for me is the obvious monoculture we're developing. I miss custom PHPBB boards for every little interest and opinion.

I think what is perceived by a community as right or wrong changes as the composition of the community changes...I mean Trump doesn't self-censor because he reflects the values of his broader base and his base eats up whatever he says....RMS' hugs and kisses, free love, anything goes attitude might have been ok during the hippie era of the 70s and 80s during the formative years of his career but does not reflect the values and sensibilities of today's broader development community....which means he needed to adapt or step down. -- The Dark knight quote - "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain" seems apt in this scenario.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#362

Post by lgeorget »

ineffectivtopos wrote: post #52
nemothekid wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the counter argument for what Stallman wrote? I've seen that the "press is going too hard on him", but, honestly, I think they were justified. What is the "big difference" to you? If someone, personally, said to me that that someone be absolved of a crime, because the other, coerced, party was "willing" at that moment, I'd seriously question their morals.

I mean, let's put aside whether the person might have reasoned the other party was willing. This line of reasoning is ridiculous. If someone appears 100% willing to you, and there's absolutely nothing different from a genuinely willing person, why should you be at fault because somebody else put that person under duress, or because they were lying (under duress or otherwise). If someone does a 100% legal thing accord…

> somebody else put that person under duress, or because they were lying (under duress or otherwise)

It's like benefitting from any other kind of traffic, isn't it? If you benefit from a money laundering scheme or a fraud, you'd be charged with complicity, even if you took a lot of care into not inquiring about the provenance of the money. At least, that's how it's be judged in my country (France, and I'm not a lawyer so don't quote me on that). I can't tell for other countries.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#363

Post by paxys »

People going on about how he made some harmless comments which have been misrepresented have no clue about how toxic RMS has been for decades. The latest comments (especially coming while the nation is still reeling from the Epstein affair) are the absolute tip of the iceberg. He has been openly sexually harassing female staff and students for a long time now, and has been tolerated or enabled by other powerful figures. Getting booted from his positions was a matter of when, not if.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#364

Post by grubsteak »

ryan_lane wrote: post #333
robocat wrote: post #120

Why does this feel like such a witch hunt? It is clear RMS was stunningly clueless to write anything about this, but surely we all know of similar engineers that would make a similar error? If everyone were held up to the same moral standard, we wouldn't have many people left in power! Just to be clear: I'm definitely not supporting hurting children (directly or indirectly) - I hope I'm not falling into the same tar…

Find a few women who've met RMS and ask them about their experience. For years I've been hearing stories from women about RMS that paint a pretty clear picture, and if you look on twitter, there's a number of threads about his abusive behavior towards women. One example: people kept plants around because he hates plants and that made it less likely he'd come around to harass them. He's discussed his views on pedophil…

> Hates plants?

From what I read, he loved to stick them up his nose in front of people. I believe he admits to it on his website.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#365

Post by scoobyyabbadoo »

ryan_lane wrote: post #320
kfrzcode wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to post anything, anywhere, just because I don't want to offend anyone by expressing an earnest opinion. I think the trend's moving more quickly towards self-censorship than anyone realizes. How can we even quantify that? Those who censor just disappear? What stands out for me is the obvious monoculture we're developing. I miss custom PHPBB boards for every little interest and opinion.

This is like the argument from male managers who say they can't have 1-1s with their female workers. It's tired, and shows a lot about your character. When you say this, you're sending up a red flag with a flare.

I just don't have 1-1s with anyone I manage. Don't want problems for having 1-1s with women, don't want discrimination accusations for having 1-1s with men. No one can accuse me of anything if everything happens in an open office with plenty of witnesses.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#366

Post by journalctl »

naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I wouldn’t call “not actively espousing hateful or bigoted views” “self-censorship”. And if people are afraid to be hateful or creepy in public, I’d call that a win. You don’t get to proclaim the advantages of chattel slavery and be magically immune from everyone’s responses, and afterwards you can’t complain about self-censorship when you think twice about writing or saying something abhorrent.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#368

Post by journalctl »

Funeralopolis wrote: post #263
Uhuhreally wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bollocks. Like Ricky Gervais said the other day actually you can say anything you like. People might not agree with you and that's fine.

If it was as simple as a disagreement, that would be fine. But it's not just simple disagreements anymore. It is costing people their livelihoods and futures because they're not toeing the ever shifting line.

Ah yes, the ever-shifting line about whether or not sex trafficking is okay.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#369

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

It's mind boggling. What the media says is a terrible misrepresentation. What he actually wrote can be found here:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929-091320191420...

Someone tried to intimidate him saying this exchange will be leaked to the press. Stallman answered people at MIT should seek the truth without being afraid.

What sad times we live in! First Linus, now Stallman...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#370

Post by scoobyyabbadoo »

fatbird wrote: post #347
snowwrestler wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. It's not. Take it from me, a guy who predates social media by decades. If you go back and look at what Gary Hart dropped out of the 1988 presidential race for, and compare it to what Donald Trump said on social media before, during, and after being elected President, the…

I hate that the parent is being downvoted. It speaks to the poor quality of the community at HN. Parent is absolutely right: twenty or thirty years ago, you were driven from the public sphere for merely a fraction of what passes today as 'within bounds'. Every cry of how we're self-censoring and being chilled rings hollow with every tweet by the pussy-grabber-in-chief. Whining about the boundaries now is just a confe…

>Parent is absolutely right: twenty or thirty years ago, you were driven from the public sphere for merely a fraction of what passes today as 'within bounds'.

That's because a single viewpoint controls "the public sphere" when all information gets to people through only a few channels controlled by a few people who all happen to be part of the same ethno-religious viewpoint. What you are seeing is a democratization of the flow of information

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