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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#361

Post by bko »

lostlogin wrote: post #337
bko wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey do you mind if we just skip the paperwork part and just control currency, while actually being a social media tech giant This is a gross mischaracterization of what Libra is. Libra is a token that's backed 1 to 1 on some basket of currencies and mostly government bonds. The Libra foundation makes money by taking a portion of the investment return to fund themselves, much like a brokerage takes a bit of the retu…

I’ll stick to using my money as money thanks. It works fine.

I'm glad that you live in a country with a stable monetary supply, little to no inflation and no capital controls.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#362

Post by freeflight »

blattimwind wrote: post #338
eastendguy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

I'd wager that about 90 % of "credit card transactions" in Germany are actually Girocard transactions. Virtually every bank card is a Girocard.

Depending on your bank, it's quite the opposite, particularly when you want to draw cash from an ATM.

With a Girocard, you have to go to a specific brand of bank or hope they are in your "cash group" or else you will pay a hefty fee.

But some banks offer to withdraw from any ATM using their VISA CC with no fees at all.

For years I've been using this to get cash without much of a hassle and pay for stuff I'd otherwise probably pay for with my Girocard.

Makes me wonder if my cash withdrawals are counted as CC transactions?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#363

Post by jeena »

lostlogin wrote: post #337
bko wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey do you mind if we just skip the paperwork part and just control currency, while actually being a social media tech giant This is a gross mischaracterization of what Libra is. Libra is a token that's backed 1 to 1 on some basket of currencies and mostly government bonds. The Libra foundation makes money by taking a portion of the investment return to fund themselves, much like a brokerage takes a bit of the retu…

I’ll stick to using my money as money thanks. It works fine.

Not in Sweden anymore, most of the lunch places in Gothenburg where I live don't allow payment by cache anymore. If you have money but not digital, you will go hungry nowadays.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#364

Post by atemerev »

sorokod wrote: post #353
atemerev wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is Academi. Their primary mission is protecting corporate interests in unstable countries / war zones. Asgaard used to do the same (I am not sure if they still exist).

Academi a.k.a. Blackwater of "Nisour Square massacre" [1] ? Same company whose founder is pitching "to deploy a private army to help topple Venezuela’s socialist president, Nicolas Maduro" [2] ? Same company that is now a member of the Constellis Group[3] ? Pardon me for not taking the corporate rebranding shenanigans too seriously. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisour_Square_massacre [2] https://www.reuters.com/…

Well, Maduro put Venezuela into deep humanitarian crisis already, with looting and starvation abound, so it is pretty normal that somebody wants to do something about that. Even if only for profit reasons.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#365

Post by sorokod »

yitchelle wrote: post #343
eastendguy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

When it is the majority of the population, it is beyond a personal decision. This is just my personal observation. Among the western European countries, German has the smallest level of adoption of credit cards. The French, the Dutch, the Swedes etc love their cashless nature of credit cards, the Germans not so much. Furthermore most of the credit cards offered by the German banks are actually debit cards.

When it is the majority of the population, it is beyond a personal decision.

It boggles my mind, but "majority" of the German population has a preference to Currywurst ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currywurst ) - is this also "beyond a personal decision" ?

If you have a reference to German government pursuing an anti credit cards policy - please provide it here.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#366

Post by bko »

jayd16 wrote: post #346
bko wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey do you mind if we just skip the paperwork part and just control currency, while actually being a social media tech giant This is a gross mischaracterization of what Libra is. Libra is a token that's backed 1 to 1 on some basket of currencies and mostly government bonds. The Libra foundation makes money by taking a portion of the investment return to fund themselves, much like a brokerage takes a bit of the retu…

Then create a bank. But that's not what this is. They want to make a bank that prints its own currency and skips the paperwork needed for current monetary exchange. It's just as OP has said.

Banks don't follow full reserve banking. They follow fractional reserve banking. When you put 1 Euro in the bank, they have discretion as to how to invest this amount and only need to keep a fraction of your money in reserves. With a bank I'm also stuck being exposed to the currency of my account. And European banks often have fees or minimum balances. Libra offers benefits to banks and is safer.

[edit] The idea of a bank holding 1 to 1 reserves is called narrow banking.

> It’s a “narrow banking” model that would back its deposits with 100 percent reserves, located at what is deemed by nearly everyone as the safest of safe locations —the U.S. central bank

Ironically the US Federal Reserve tried to stop the creation of a narrow bank because it would undermine fractional reserve banks.

[0] https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-fed-wants-to-veto-sta...

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#367

Post by Tomte »

lispm wrote: post #261
aazaa wrote: post #27

> “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” What a bizarre statement. Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. It's also odd in the context of Germany in particular where a private currency has been used for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer I suspect there's a lot more behind this sta…

> It's also odd in the context of Germany It isn't. Only the Bundesbank / ECB is allowed to provide a currency in for Germany. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Währungsmonopol The Chiemgauer is a regional voucher system - more comparable to regional loyalty programs or frequent-flyer programs.

Those regional currencies have popped up several times, the Chiemgauer is just the only(?) long-living one.

Official stance IIRC is: illegal, but so small and irrelevant by volume that it's best to ignore it and let people have a little fun and community engagement.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#368

Post by jeena »

wil421 wrote: post #348
eastendguy wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

>It is accepted everywhere. Not in my experience in the least bit. Germany was the only place that I’ve been where there were so many non-credit card restaurants etc. I was traveling for work in Bavaria and baden-württemberg. It was an issue and we had to make sure I selected the right place to use my work cc. I took some personal time in Munich and most of the places I went were cash only. 2 students, one from Finla…

It's basically the opposite in Sweden, if you don't have a credit card but just cash, you will at least in Gothenburg where I work go hungry during lunch.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#369

Post by rocqua »

Qasaur wrote: post #243
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

Ironic that the German government wants to avoid irresponsible monetary policy through a private entity when it is literally printing money to stimulate growth through the ECB.

Germany is very much opposed to the current ECB policy.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#370

Post by bko »

glitchc wrote: post #341
tannhaeuser wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

The primary purview of the state is geography (borders) and taxation (monetary policy). Allowing foreign money to be the primary medium of exchange directly challenges monetary policy.

> Allowing foreign money to be the primary medium of exchange directly challenges monetary policy.

Who said anything about a primary medium of exchange? Should dollars be disallowed as well? How about bitcoin? Starbucks gift cards?

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