US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers • Hacker News Board

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#361

Post by masklinn » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #110

Great. If only monitor manufacturers would do the same thing. I have a monitor with exactly 2 inputs (1 DP, 1 HDMI). What do I need to do to switch between them? 1. Press the Menu button 2. Move the option to Input Source 3. Select Input Source 4. Move from one to the other 5. Press Select Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with…

> Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with hardware input source buttons? WHY?

I have an old display with hardware input source buttons, but if your display has 4+ inputs, and especially given most users aren't going to ever switch inputs, that's a lot of additional complexity with little point.

Isn't a single "next input" button (which cycles through) common though?

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#362

Post by hvidgaard » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

baroffoos wrote: post #262

leetcrew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really not that complicated, you just have to understand why condensation is happening in the first place. it's always because the glass is colder than the moist air it is touching. there are two strategies to deal with this: either blow air with very low relative humidity over the glass, or fix the temperature differential itself. if you're using the "blow dry air" strategy, you always want to turn on AC and at…

>it's really not that complicated After reading this I am still not sure which one to use. They seem to both work.

Both work, one is just faster than the other. The post you replied to seems to imply that cold air is better in the winter, but that is absolutely not my experience.

When I get in the car in the morning, the air is already cold. No amount of more cold air from the vents will clear that. What's making it fog up, is the moisture I'm exhaling. More cold air is not going to fix that unless I drive with all windows down. So the only reasonable option since AC don't work at low temperature, is waiting for the car to heat up.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#363

Post by iofiiiiiiiii » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:04 AM UTC

pandapower2 wrote: post #300

almog wrote: post #226

"Fun" touchscreen story - I had to file a warranty claim for my not so cheap blender that had mechanical controls. The company replaced it with the newer model, that had, you guessed it - touchscreen control. Not long after that, I was working in the kitchen, moving stuff into the blender, when a drop of water made it to the screen. The thing started at full speed throwing liquid everywhere, which worsened the situat…

>If I had to guess the next touchscreen everywhere will be misuse of AI, not in a malicious way, but in a really stupid one. Reminds me of a talk someone gave. I forget who. Elon Musk perhaps. A quick google didn't turn it up. Anyhow, they laid out a hypothetical scenario where humans were driven to extinction by a run away AI. Rather than being some sort of Skynet scenario where the machines are explicitly trying to…

The Revelation Space book series by Alastair Reynolds [spoilers ahead] ends with such a paperclip maximizer scenario. Someone accidentally turns on advanced sentient self-replicating terraforming robots without programming their target area. They promptly begin to terraform the galaxy and don't take kindly to interference.

This is a tiny shade of background in the story, not the main story, but read the books if you like this kind of tale.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#364

Post by DonHopkins » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:08 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #241

MisterTea wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it worked on Star Trek. Then again, that was addressed in a Voyager episode when Tom Paris designs the helm in their new runabout with old fashioned buttons and switches because he wanted to actually feel the controls much to Tuvok's dismay. Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see gr…

I installed encoder knobs to emulate potentiometers There's really no need to force this decision to go in either direction. Ever since I first heard of capacitive multitouch, going back to the timeframe before the first iPhone announcement, I've been waiting for someone to build 'stick-on' encoder knobs that the touchscreen controller can read. These would simply take the form of a knob with a metal leaf or other po…

In Michael Naimark's series of articles about "VR and AR Fundamentals" [1], the chapter on "Other Senses (Touch, Smell, Taste, Mind)" [2] discusses haptic feedback, and even mentions Hiroo Iwata's delicious "Food Simulator" [3].

[1] VR and AR Fundamentals: https://medium.com/@michaelnaimark/vr-ar-fundamentals-prolog...

[2] Other Senses (Touch, Smell, Taste, Mind): https://medium.com/@michaelnaimark/vr-ar-fundamentals-3-othe...

[3] Food Simulator: https://www.wired.com/2003/08/slideshow-wonders-aplenty-at-s... https://ars.electronica.art/center/en/food-simulator/ http://icat.vrsj.org/papers/2003/00876_00000.pdf

Hiroo Iwata is a brilliant mad scientist [4], and in a previous HN discussion about pie menus and haptic multitouch interfaces [5], I linked to his wonderful work on 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen. [6] [7]

[4] Professor Hiroo IWATA: http://www.frontier.kyoto-u.ac.jp/te03/member/iwata/index.ht...

[5] HN discussion of pie menus and haptic multitouch interfaces: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17105984

[6] 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCZPmj7NtSQ

[7] 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-10-4157-0_...

>Shun Takanaka, Hiroaki Yano, Hiroo Iwata, Presented at AsiaHaptics2016. This paper reports on the development of a multitouch haptic interface equipped with a movable touchscreen. When the relative position of two of a user’s fingertips is fixed on a touchscreen, the fingers can be considered a hand-shaped rigid object. In such situations, a reaction force can be exerted on each finger using a three degrees of freedom (3DOF) haptic interface. In this study, a prototype 3DOF haptic interface system comprising a touchscreen, a 6-axis force sensor, an X-Y stage, and a capstan drive system was developed. The developed system estimates the input force from fingers using sensor data and each finger’s position. Further, the system generates reaction forces from virtual objects to the user’s fingertips by controlling the static frictional force between each of the user’s fingertips and the screen. The system enables users to perceive the shape of two-dimensional virtual objects displayed on the screen and translate/rotate them with their fingers. Moreover, users can deform elastic virtual objects, and feel their rigidity.

There are some other really bizarre examples of haptic interfaces in the AsiaHaptics2016 conference videos! (Not all safe for work, depending on your chosen profession, predilection for palpation, and assessment of sphincter tone.) [8]

[8] AsiaHaptics2016: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8qMmIgmWhnQBeABjGlzGbg/vid...

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#365

Post by acd » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:09 AM UTC

If you have physically controls then you will get haptic touch feedback and develop muscle memory.

Physical controls is similar to playing the guitar you need the feedback and sensitivity of the touch thing.

Touch screens is good for certain areas. Displaying information.

Ferries have had similar incidents crash with dock, with touch controls.

A reason aircraft have gps with knobs, bmw has roll wheel to control the infotainment selection etc.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#366

Post by ahartmetz » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

CriticalCathed wrote: post #240

Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

Just about every Human Computer Interaction focused computer scientist I know is adamant that touch screens are inappropriate and vastly sub-optimal for many of the purposes it is currently employed in. I don't think it's that researchers think it's good. I think that executives and programmers do.

Touchscreens, even where they don't make sense, are just one of those collective idiocies that regularly sweep the IT world. Hard to say who is at fault - there are many fashion victims in every group. Also many who have doubts or don't care either way, but will happily play along to sell something.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#367

Post by PrototypeNM1 » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:31 AM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #298

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really believe we would be better off if every piece of technology we used was open source. All the display manufacturers really want is to make displays. Making the OSD doesn’t have to be their doing, and an open source community could build a common interface with some basic button requirements. We could maintain a list of supported manufacturers and before long you know to avoid devices that don’t support it. Th…

This is a great idea. Or make monitors have a USB device profile, or just use the serial profile and have a command response protocol (http rest) for query and setting configuration. Standardize this protocol. Now all displays could be configured using external standardized logic. I'd prefer something over SPI, but either is really ok.

DDC/CI?

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#368

Post by trilila » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

Fully touch capable keyboards would be awesome actually. Imagine remapping keys according to apps (games, editing, coding). I am not sure why you are using the macbook pro as a reference, as the only issues i had with it are related to the classic keyboard, not the touch.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#369

Post by Fr0styMatt88 » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:46 AM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #198

Wait. Let me get this straight. Touchscreens, which are ideal for representing multiple user unterfaces in an intuitive way, but requiring constant visual contact are being replaced by a physical user interface that can be used by both touch, and memory? Why was touchscreen ever even a consideration for controls you're not looking at? Touchscreen is great for phones. It is awful for keyboards (see macbook pro). And i…

There’s something even worse than touchscreens IMHO - those capacitive buttons on non-screen surfaces, like the capacitive power touch points on some monitor bezels. As a visually impaired person, these are absolutely maddening. I don’t know if anyone else gets this, but it’s almost like my brain doesn’t know how to press them. Touchscreens are fine for me, but for some reason I get major tension in my hands when trying to find these surface ‘buttons’. They’re often denoted with a tiny symbol in low contrast, just to make it even worse.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#370

Post by KuhlMensch » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:53 AM UTC

Its pretty simple to work out if the touchscreens were a step-back: ask the operators.

BACK-DROP: Many commentators blame the USS Fitzgerald squarely at the feet of budgetary uncertainty, leading to severely depleted crews. Researching it now, the coverage I think must of been largely by this guy https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/aqmwam/im_t_christian...