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Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#361

Post by justapassenger »

scarface74 wrote: post #347
justapassenger wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not relevant. Apple is one of the worlds most valuable company, and they're stagnating. They've been hitting home-runs with products before, and creating new markets. Watch, even if it ends up eating the whole current market, but not creating new one, is a failure by Apple standards. Unless Apple is going to branch out and become company like Samsung, that makes everything from watches, to nuclear power plants…

So exactly what category of electronics do you propose that Apple can enter that has a larger worldwide penetration than the smart phone market - there are 2.72 billion smart phone users worldwide ( https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-w... )?

It's a market that they largely created, and that was their super-power. And now it's up to them to figure out next big thing, if they want to keep their lead and valuation.

They can still be very successful company without that. But not necessarily as one of the world most valuable companies.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#362

Post by scarface74 »

vannevar wrote: post #354
scarface74 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Apple would have loved to sell a low margin $50-$150 product? Have you been following Apple for the last 40 years? The only time Apple sold inexpensive electronics that I can remember were the iPod Shuffles and they were more expensive than other low end MP3 products.

But Apple wouldn't have needed to sell them at $50-150. They're Apple. They could've sold them for $399. They couldn't make the Echo because they lacked either the market insight to see the opportunity, or the technology to pull it off.

You mean like the HomePod? How is that working out? People will buy a $600-$1000 phone for two reasons - it’s highly subsidized/payment plans and the phone is considered a necessity. The number of people who would pay $400 for a smart speaker is minuscule. Heck iPads only started seeing an uptick when Apple started selling good low end models at $329.

The AppleTV was a decently early set top box and those didn’t change the world. It wasn’t until Roku and Amazon started selling them at basically break even or maybe a slight loss for $50 that those took off.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#363

Post by jes5199 »

jstepka wrote: post #95
jes5199 wrote: post #21

there’s something wrong with Apple lately. They ship hardware that’s worse than what they had five years ago, and their software has more and more embarrassing bugs. Seems like management problems.

CarPlay is amazing and keeps getting better. The new beta 13 is a solid upgrade from 12 -- even as a beta.

yeah, but buying a new car is just not ever a good idea

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#364

Post by oefrha »

o10449366 wrote: post #328
DLA wrote: post #233

NY Times made a mess of this story and slanted it toward their agendas. Horrible reporting. Apple beat most estimates. Revenues grew. All time high revenue from services. Forward guidance was raised. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/07/apple-reports-third-q...

Their reporting on technology is often intentionally misleading and sensationalist, but it isn't surprising considering they directly compete with the likes of Facebook for attention and also rely on Google, Apple, and Twitter for visibility. I stopped reading NYT after their obvious crusade on Facebook followed by their embarrassing "privacy" series. Most of these companies disgust me, but NYT's reporting almost mad…

> Their reporting on technology is often intentionally misleading and sensationalist

I don’t think it’s limited to tech. You’re likely experiencing the Gell-Mann amnesia effect here.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#365

Post by scarface74 »

justapassenger wrote: post #361
scarface74 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So exactly what category of electronics do you propose that Apple can enter that has a larger worldwide penetration than the smart phone market - there are 2.72 billion smart phone users worldwide ( https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-w... )?

It's a market that they largely created, and that was their super-power. And now it's up to them to figure out next big thing, if they want to keep their lead and valuation. They can still be very successful company without that. But not necessarily as one of the world most valuable companies.

They did not create the smart phone market. By 2004-2005 the average middle class American had cell phones. Cheap prepaid phones could be bought for less than $100 with minutes. The Nokia candy bar phone was already selling well in developing countries. The BlackBerry, Windows Phones, and Palm phones were already selling. It was already clear when Apple was entering the market that the cell phone was gaining ubiquity.

It was so obvious that Apple should be entering the smart phone market with a combination iPod + phone that people were already coining the name iPhone 3 years before it was introduced.

What market are you seeing with the clear growth trajectories that the cell phone had by 2002 that Apple should enter within the next 5 years?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#366

Post by [deleted] »

zippergz wrote: post #193
vbezhenar wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with touch id? I never used face id, but fingerprint sensor on iPhone 8 is good. It unlocks at the same time I'm pressing on button, so most of the time I don't notice it at all. And I almost never getting false negatives. I can't imagine how face id might be better, but I can imagine how it can be worse.

In my experience, Face ID is much faster and more seamless. Basically it's like my phone isn't locked because before I'd even have a chance to think about it, it's unlocked. I was VERY resistant to losing the home button, but I find that the new gestures are much more natural for me. Obviously this is a personal preference thing, but for quite a while I had a touch ID iPad and a Face ID iPhone, and it was really nigh…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#367

Post by kalleboo »

outworlder wrote: post #212
vbezhenar wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with touch id? I never used face id, but fingerprint sensor on iPhone 8 is good. It unlocks at the same time I'm pressing on button, so most of the time I don't notice it at all. And I almost never getting false negatives. I can't imagine how face id might be better, but I can imagine how it can be worse.

There's nothing _wrong_ with touch ID. It's just that FaceID is way better. It is faster and more seamless, it can work even if you are wearing gloves. Plus, it lets the phone not display sensitive notification details until you are the one looking at the screen(with attention detection on, the default, you have to be really looking at it), only then it will display the details(including actual messages, depending on…

> it can work even if you are wearing gloves

This is a tradeoff though, as FaceID doesn't work if you're wearing sunglasses.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#368

Post by scarface74 »

vannevar wrote: post #351
scarface74 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla - losing money Google - the only thing they are doing profitability is selling ads. Just look at Apple’s revenue split (second graph). How do you think that compares to Google? https://sixcolors.com/post/2019/07/apple-third-quarter-2019-... A “successful” product is one that you can sell for more than it costs to make. Anyone can sell dollar bills for 0.95 cents. Amazon? Yes AWS is definitely successful and inn…

What does any of this have to do with innovation, the topic of the thread? There are lots of very successful companies that don't release innovative consumer products. My point isn't that Apple is a bad company, it's not that other companies are 'better' companies. It's simply that the kind of 'home run' innovation for which Apple is famous has been missing for the last decade. The Apple Watch is a great product, it'…

I’m asking the same question. What possible home run could any electronic company create that could be a larger market than the phone market? There are 2.75 billion phones in use worldwide. Anything is going to pale in comparison to that market.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#369

Post by yepthatsreality »

S_A_P wrote: post #32

I have thought long and hard about upgrading my iPhone 8 to one of the new X models, but I don't like the lack of a home button. I guess I am officially old now, but I dont want to look at my phone to unlock it. I like that I can reach in my pocket, and unlock it with my thumb as I retrieve it. It may be user error, but I see several co-workers have to really train the phone on their face to unlock with Face ID. That…

I broke my home button and lost touch ID. For a while until I could replace the home button, I used the software home button which floats on your screen. The actual home button for navigation isn't really needed and swipe gesture is a natural evolution of that. However I would prefer fingerprint to face biometrics is what I discovered during this physical home button-less period.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#370

Post by judge2020 »

ajross wrote: post #262
DLA wrote: post #233

NY Times made a mess of this story and slanted it toward their agendas. Horrible reporting. Apple beat most estimates. Revenues grew. All time high revenue from services. Forward guidance was raised. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/07/apple-reports-third-q...

That's a bit spun too, though. Revenue is up just .93%. Net income is down 12.7%. And they beat the estimates because the estimates were expecting bad news, as the overall trend has been stagnant for about two years. Those just aren't good numbers for a company that, over the past decade, has been literally the most profitable in history. They aren't "bad" numbers, but for Apple they're sort of a disaster. The iPhone…

Most things that can be spun clockwise can also be spun counterclockwise.
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