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Google Fights Back

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Re: Google Fights Back

#361

Post by MertsA »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #186
orhmeh09 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see Apple having access to keys there. Could you point it out? CTRL+F for “key” came up with 7 results but nothing to suggest Apple holds them and can decrypt. Apologies.

There's a section about half way down that lists all end-to-end encrypted data (keychain, health, payment data, ...). By implication, all other data is not end-to-end encrypted. That includes iCloud drive, photos, calendar, contacts and mail.

Also one big deal is how Apple handles key distribution. They absolutely could MitM that connection to get access to the user's keychain and the UI doesn't really give the user any feasible way to detect that Apple has added their own key instead of just the key for your other device that Apple doesn't control. It's "end to end encrypted" but if you just handwave away key distribution and leave that up to Apple, what's the point other than a marketing gimmick?

Re: Google Fights Back

#362

Post by icebraining »

pdimitar wrote: post #153
username223 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realised in the next months that the perceived "freedom to tinker" on Android is something hugely overrated. I've never really wanted to tinker much with my smartphone. I want it to do a handful of simple tasks (calls, texts, maps, music, light web browsing), and otherwise get out of the way. Similarly, I switched to Mac OS X awhile back after years on Linux and BSD, because I realized that I would never want to…

While I admire people like Richard Stallman and Sir Tim Berners-Lee, IMO they fail to understand that most people simply don't care -- they have a life, job, family and stuff they like to do in their free time and they want technology to enable them and save them time, not get in the way and take their free time. I used Debian as a main driver for several years and lost patience around 2010. Using a MacBook Pro with…

They don't fail to understand it. They just realize that if people don't push back, they won't have freedom to tinker even when they need it.

Re: Google Fights Back

#363

Post by pdimitar »

bepvte wrote: post #356
pdimitar wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protonmails worthless encryption Can you elaborate on that, please?

Protonmail advertises special end to end encryption thats only available when sending emails to other protonmail users. Others get the standard TLS that every provider uses. Recently they added a feature convert emails a link to a page that asks the non-protonmail user for a password (not a private key or login) and then decrypts the email in the browser, which I find pretty worthless.

That's suboptimal but worthless might be too strong a word to describe it.

It's definitely better than nothing.

The proprietary thing does not look good I admit. But maybe they think the open stack is easy to pwn?

Re: Google Fights Back

#364

Post by MertsA »

eertami wrote: post #152
Dig1t wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It _is_ encrypted, Apple cannot see it. The parent comment is mistaken

>Apple cannot see it. How can you be sure? End to end encryption is not a guarantee when you're inputting your key into a closed source client to store and retrieve the data.

Especially given that key distribution is totally up to Apple and the end user has no practical way to verify that the key for "My iMac" is really the same key that's actually used by your iMac.

Re: Google Fights Back

#365

Post by [deleted] »

busymom0 wrote: post #166

I think this is all just a PR stunt and Google's business model goes against user privacy. It's quite interesting the way people are more willing to trust Google than Facebook with their data though. I think this might come from Google actually offering more "useful/needed/can't live without" offerings vs facebook's more vanity based services. For example, Google takes your very privacy sensitive location data but al…

[deleted]

Re: Google Fights Back

#366

Post by saagarjha »

gjtorikian wrote: post #39
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

Curious. What do you think happens when Apple goes under?

Isn't that the whole argument? If Apple goes under, they can't sell off data they didn't collect?

Re: Google Fights Back

#367

Post by icebraining »

01100011 wrote: post #240
pgeorgi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And i don't believe for a second the data they're allowing you to "autodelete" genuinely gets deleted. It just gets removed from your view. While "deleted" might take a while (eventual consistency FTW), any company with a presence in the EU has a lot to lose if such a scheme (beyond what they declare, eg. "31 days to recover your account") ever sees the light of day.

I wonder how they define 'your data'? If I train a neural net to recognize you and predict your behaviors and preferences, are the weights of the network yours, or can I keep them? What if the network covers you and your family? Do I have to retrain my network?

Yes, if the neural net can identify a person, it's covered by the GDPR:

"Personal data which have undergone pseudonymisation, which could be attributed to a natural person by the use of additional information should be considered to be information on an identifiable natural person" (Recital 26).

In which case you need a lawful basis for doing such processing (of which consent is just one possibility). Furthermore, that's considered "profiling" and is subject to extra rules if it can have strong impact on the person's life.

On the other hand, if the data is well mixed with other people's, preventing that recognition, then it has been anonymized, and therefore it's not longer subject to the GDPR (Recital 26). But note that you're still subject to it when you're capturing and using personal data to train that model, even if the model itself is anonymized.

Re: Google Fights Back

#368

Post by andbberger »

2Ccltvcm wrote: post #154
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

Rupert Murdoch and criminals own MySpace data. From Wikipedia: 2013–present: Time Inc. and Meredith Corporation ownership On February 11, 2016, it was announced that MySpace and its parent company had been bought by Time Inc.[18] Time Inc. was in turn purchased by the Meredith Corporation on January 31, 2018.[20] In May 2016, the data for almost 360 million MySpace accounts was offered on the "Real Deal" dark market…

I'd like to believe there were backups but the engineers running the show decided to have an accident and let all that data be at peace.

Re: Google Fights Back

#369

Post by mda »

gcbw2 wrote: post #22
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

> what happens when google is Google no more? Google already have many, many advertising partners to whom they gladly provide your location and other data. But they anonymize it, so you are safe ;)

This is a lie.

Re: Google Fights Back

#370

Post by icebraining »

martinlaz wrote: post #248
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is already not Google. The "Don't Be Evil" corporation that valued open source rather than open-washing, that valued openstandards over "oops, we didn't mean to break that for you!" isn't here anymore. The company that bends over backwards, much farther than the law requires, to enable the surveillance state. I despise Apple. Especially on mobile. No SDCards, no headphone jack, walled garden app stores. Ugh ug…

> Google collects so much absurd amount of data - that all the Proton-mail, DuckduckGo, Wire/Signal, Firefox (loaded with adblocking and tracking plugins) apps in the world can't keep you totally from it as long as you're on Android. You disable things, you opt out of stuff and it just keeps on collecting anyways. There must be some kind of way outta here. How about carving out a Google-free chunk of the web, and the…

Not crazy, but you would be excluding 85% of the top 100k sites, including stuff like Github. I'd rather just try to block the Google domains themselves.
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