Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

edition.cnn.com

361–370 of 776 posts

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jones never promoted the harassment of victims of crimes. Can you support your statements with some direct quotes? Or are you promoting the harassment of Jones with unfounded lies? Undermining the public trust of institutions is alive and well in the discourse of the US president, who openly erodes trust in the media, the FBI, the DNC, and the IC (including limited support of anti-vax views https://twitter.com/realdo…

- De La Rosa v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001842) - Heslin v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001835) - Fontaine v. Alex Jones et al. (D-1-GN-18-001605) - Scarlett Lewis vs. Alex Jones, InfoWars LLC et al. (D-1-GN-18-006623)

I am familiar with those lawsuits. Alex Jones did not promote harassment. He did not even factually conclude that Sandy Hook was a hoax, just floated the possibility.

He reported on anomalies, on the conspiracy, on using Sandy Hook as a pretext to take away guns, on Adam Lanza probably using big pharma drugs. He stated that he understands why people would see Sandy Hook as a hoax, because history shows other events have been staged to further a political agenda.

Alex Jones was himself a victim of the media, who put weeks long pressure on SV tech companies and made it look like Alex Jones was sending his followers to harass the victims, long after Alex concluded it was not a hoax, and that Adam Lanza was the killer. They purposely took his statements and unhinged rants out of context and painted him as a transphobic, violence instigator, and maker of death threats.

The trick to attack free speech that is opposed to yours, is to make it seem like violence instigation or racism, so then it does not deserve the protection of free speech. The other is to put pressure on advertisers and commercial platforms and make them guilty by association. We've seen both of those tricks and they are dangerous and spell trouble for the future.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yiannopolous has promoted violence against journalists and associated himself with white supremacist movements. Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. White supremacists hate Yiannopolous

>Yiannopolous is Jewish and is married to a black man. He's Catholic, nobody has ever seen his husband, and there is no public record of his marriage.

Jewish ethnically. You personally haven't seen his husband, and you personally haven't seen a public record of his marriage.

OK, so he's a white supremacist who pretends to be Jewish and pretends to have a black husband. Totally makes sense.

Seriously, there is no evidence that he has white supremacist beliefs. He hates political correctness and radical leftist ideas. The SJW's/leftists are offended by his criticism and call him a Nazi. Everyone who disagrees with leftists is called a Nazi.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#363
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you’re talking about someone like Farrakhan, and the explicit racial basis for slavery and segregation, is simply being “racist” sufficient justification for a ban? By that same token, can Facebook ban say Armenians for being racist against Turks? Should Facebook step blithely into these very complex issues?

I think Farrakhan is a really tough case. First, he's cartoonishly anti-semitic and has been for years. He's as much of a hate monger as any of the other people who were banned and that's enough reason to ban him. That given, he has also materially supported vulnerable populations in a way that few organizations have. He has pushed very hard for black people to be proud of their blackness and to create narratives in…

>He has pushed very hard for black people to be proud of their blackness and to create narratives in which blackness is not looked down upon. This is good, needed work.

(disclaimer : i'm about as anti FB and anti-censorship as one can be.)

Well, he (Farrakhan) mostly just taught blacks to hate whites -- which I guess achieves more 'black pride', but not in any manner that I think is sustainable or responsible. Rather than raising one group up, he just taught that the other group was worse than perceived.

"White people are potential humans – they haven’t evolved yet."

“You are not now, nor have you ever been a citizen of America. You are a slave to white America.”

and my personal favorite, although unrelated to whites in America :

“Qadaffi’s a revolutionary, he’s my friend, he’s my brother. And I would never deny him because you don’t like him… I love him.”

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#364

I'm not a fan of either of these people, but how exactly are Milo Yiannopolous and Paul Joseph Watson "dangerous"? Maybe it's not good material for people to be watching, but to call them "dangerous" comes off like the religious right of yore claiming that video games depicting violence are dangerous and need to be censored. I wouldn't normally step in to defend these people, but this article by CNN is a prime exampl…

Milo is a known associate and darling of the alt-right.

Facebook by definition is milquetoast and that's part of what makes it great. This is like accusing Disney of being boring by not having an voice from the alt-right.

Your post borders on concern trolling.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#365

Every time this subject comes up, someone inevitably says something like "Facebook is a private corporation, the first amendment only applies to the government, and if you want to use Facebook you have to play by their rules. No one is owed a platform." Platforms like Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter are basically monopolies. They are the only services in their class to take seriously if you're looking to gain a follow…

Monopolies do not get to just call themselves a private concern, able to do what they want. We only tolerate monopolies with suitable regulation. For example, we do not allow water, electricity, or other things provided by monopolies to be cut by a company when the company disagrees with the customer's political or other views.

In addition, the US federal government only exists to protect the innumerable rights of US citizens. Some of these rights are enumerated in the constitution. It is therefore well within the scope of the federal government to protect citizens against bully companies like Facebook who are infringing on these rights.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#366

Attitudes towards free speech have changed a lot in recent times. This is related to the rise of social media. The advent of social media had made it too easy to spread hate online. It started off innocently enough, with cat videos uploaded to youtube, but soon extremists were taking advantage of social media for radicalization purposes, and others even live-streaming mass murders. This has caused an upheaval in atti…

I am very much in favor of Free Speech myself. But I think the annoying thing people forget is that it's the job of society to determine what is okay and what isn't. The government isn't supposed to decide our morals, we tell the government what those should be. Society is deciding that this is not stuff we want. Society is rejecting these ideas, and Facebook or Cloudflare when they dropped the Daily Stormer, etc, ar…

Society isn't deciding, Facebook is deciding.

I personally think Facebook can do whatever the please with their website. However, if they remove the users they don't like then that implies they approve of the users that remain.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy works great except that "someone" is actually 1/4 of the humans currently alive, your "house" is now the primary, perhaps only, communication medium for those ~2 billion people, and its a couple million people in your basement calling your daughter a whore.

A little confused about the point you're trying to make here? Is it your view that a man's property rights are inversely proportional to the number of people who covet his property?

> Is it your view that a man's property rights are inversely proportional to the number of people who covet his property?

In so many words - I guess. I don't think property rights are naturally extended to Facebook as a global communication medium even if the communication does happen primarily on their property. I suppose I should have written that in the first place! At the very least, respecting those rights is not the paramount virtue. I also believe that the claim "private property first amendment need not apply" is not, by and large, a principled stance when ostensibly the same mob eg cheers on the lawsuit against a bakery for not making a cake.

Sorry for the snark earlier.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#369

I'm not a fan of either of these people, but how exactly are Milo Yiannopolous and Paul Joseph Watson "dangerous"? Maybe it's not good material for people to be watching, but to call them "dangerous" comes off like the religious right of yore claiming that video games depicting violence are dangerous and need to be censored. I wouldn't normally step in to defend these people, but this article by CNN is a prime exampl…

Giving equal air time to falsehoods and inciteful language is in my opinion dangerous. An anti-vaxxer should not be given the same air time as a scientifically accredited researcher who has decades of research behind them. We don't give holocaust deniers a platform and I don't believe we should give any other racial or religious hate speech anything remotely approaching equal air time.

Facebook is a platform that allows children (13+) and families to share posts and content. I don't see how they can simultaneously provide an environment for religious and racial hate speech and anti-vaxxers to spread their FUD without compromising on one or the other. Either you're family friendly or you're a platform for 'edgy' content.

The right to free speech (in the US at least) is a tremendous and wonderful thing but there's no mention that every fool should be given equal air time in every newspaper, TV programme or now on private content platforms like Facebook. There are sites aimed at providing a haven for edgy or outright false and inciteful speech. Facebook and in my opinion Twitter are not it.

Re: Facebook Bans Louis Farrakhan, Milo Yiannopoulos, InfoWars and Others

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ..when their product category is fundamental to modern life. FB/YT/Twitter are not fundamental to modern life. They aren't even fundamental to gaining an audience. Lots of businesses[1] manage to turn handsome profits without advertising on those platforms. [1] And that's what infowars/milo are -- businesses looking for make a profit by producing social commentary and then selling ad space / books / videos / merch…

>FB/YT/Twitter are not fundamental to modern life. Neither are cakes. But people on left celebrating Facebook for doing what they want on their platform - seem quite similar to the people on the left also trying to get a baker forced to make a cake. Can't have it both ways. (edited for clarity)

To clarify, the baker had no problem providing a cake. The problem was compelling speech on the part of the baker to write certain things on the cake.
Post reply on HN