Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European Parliament approves copyright reform

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 840 posts

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#361

Post by koonsolo »

Xelbair wrote: post #330
dingaling wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The day the Internet died. No. The day the ”Upload Other People's Work" Internet died. > what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels Or just creating their own content. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Yeah, i am really curious what approach will content hosting companies take. Will they analyze each video if it is a illegal or legal one, checking everything... or just implement a simple, fast and cheap filter that will block most of the content, with no way to appeal the ruling, just like youtube is doing now...

I hope they block the entire EU. And yes, I live in the EU.

That way they need to shamefully roll back this law, and we're sure they don't try to pull off such a farce in the (near) future.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#362

Post by kaybe »

bashwizard wrote: post #289
phatfish wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I though this was supposed to happen after the GDPR was made law... still waiting.

I didn't. I expected to be greeted with "We care about your privacy" and then have to opt in or not being able to access the content. I was right.

I still see far too many sites which want me to opt out of 100+ trackers individually. I usually just leave. Thanks for hindering my procrastination habits I guess.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#363

Post by rurban »

dingaling wrote: post #273
philpem wrote: post #226

As I said on one of the other threads... 26 March 2019. The day the Internet died. (at least in Europe) But of course -- "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" -- so what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels into other countries. That'd be interesting. It'd render GeoIP rather moot, among other things. I suspect the EU and Member States'…

> The day the Internet died. No. The day the ”Upload Other People's Work" Internet died. > what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels Or just creating their own content. Wouldn't that be awesome?

The problem is not uploading illegal content. The problem is that this legislation is technically impossible to fulfill, there does not exist foolproof content violation check mechanisms and there will none. This needs strong AI, and a not existing framework to recognize and handle "works". This is impossible without a court order.

Therefore every platform provider visible in the EU (like Wikipedia, Facebook, Youtube, every blog, newspaper comment sections, ...) needs to stop accepting user content, because they cannot guarantee that copyright violations will not occur. They cannot be filtered and not detected. Think e.g. of song texts in images. Will you OCR every image for a work? There does exist a foolproof method to bypass AI, it's called captcha. Even if you install comment or upload submission queues with manual labor ("manual filtering"), you cannot guarantee copyright violations, only courts can do that.

The politicians might have thought of an GEMA-like index to store hashes of protected content in some form or another, which could be distributed to content certain providers, but this doesn't affect the law, which is much broader and not fulfillable. Thus Web 2.0 is dead.

If I would be Facebook I would rather ignore said new laws and go to court over it. The existing framework is good enough, the best way to handle copyright violations.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#364

Post by GenericsMotors »

anoncake wrote: post #234
sprash wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kept out of wars because it is a direct democracy. People almost never vote in favor of war.

Switzerland kept out of wars because it wasnt invaded. Poland didnt decide to join WW2.

And it only wasn't invaded because the entire country was (and is) a standing army, and Germany would have to pay dearly for every mile they tried to take.

IIRC they even shot down german war planes that entered their airspace and suffered no retaliation.

So yeah, they do have a knack for maintaining their neutrality.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#365

Post by apexalpha »

luiscleto wrote: post #349
apexalpha wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of European media sees their content stolen and re-uploaded by anonymous users on YT, FB, etc... FB in particular have not responded to this and thus content creators lose a lot of views and money. This video sums it up nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7tA3NNKF0Q

However, the fact that there is a problem, does not legitimize doing something regardless of what the something is. I haven't seen any support for the articles which actually shows the effects of the policy will be good, rather than arguments saying "it's meant to be good". Which is a fallacy that affects many politics which later end up having adverse effects. But ultimately bureaucrats are happy whenever there is a…

Oh I agree that this law is shit, and a huge overreach. Like shooting a mosquito with a cannon.

I was just trying to put in perspective WHY the politicians feel the need to do this. It's mostly backlash against Facebook for years of content stealing.

Youtube and itś content ID system are actually what this law wants to introduce everywhere. While not perfect, it's still better than Facebook, which seems to be lawless on copyright.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#366

Post by vince14 »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #268
laacz wrote: post #228

Individual votes are in: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/copyrightvot...

Can we get votes per national-level party (e.g. Labour, Conservatives etc.)? EDIT - at least here's how the parliament groupings voted - https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1110552457682264065

Germany: https://twitter.com/MartinSonneborn/status/11105411623712727...

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#367

Post by rurban »

philpem wrote: post #314
dingaling wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The day the Internet died. No. The day the ”Upload Other People's Work" Internet died. > what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels Or just creating their own content. Wouldn't that be awesome?

You need only look at the rampant abuse of Content ID to see what the likely result will be... "Sorry, the video you uploaded 'Me playing Beethoven on the piano' contains BEETHOVEN'S 5TH SYMPHONY by BMG-EMI-XYZ Music Corp. You cannot upload this video."

This would be an invalid flag. BMG-EMI-XYZ Music Corp does not own this work, they could only own a certain recording of a certain orchestra playing this piece. And we know that detecting that certain recording via music matching does not work, only checking the strong hash of it would work. Which would be trivial to circumvent by a single bit-flip.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#368

Post by wolco »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #339
jaabe wrote: post #321

I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion, but I’m actually fine with more equality in copyright legislation. These “disastrous” copyright laws already apply to you and me, and if you think they don’t, then just try hosting a top 1 music video on your personal domain. Where the laws don’t apply is if your service is to host user content and you have the size to circumvent justice. YouTube makes a lot of money off…

If you host a video that you don’t own you facilitate copyright theft. Expect a takedown notice and it goes away. These big companies let people upload their own videos. Now they are liable for what their users share. Expect them to disable letting users share videos.

So youtube would stop allowing uploading? That would shut down youtube quickly

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#369

Post by koonsolo »

Gudahtt wrote: post #260
Funes- wrote: post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

Not all for-profit websites are run by big corporations. The companies you're describing here are also the ones that will find it easiest to comply with these new regulations. YouTube for example was already pressured to create a filtering system, ContentID. Behemoths like Facebook will have a far easier time adapting than your typical startup. Article 13 dooms smaller companies and startups, thus further entrenching…

I have a platform where teenagers can easily create and share games. I'm currently based in Belgium, but with this new revelation, I'm forced to move abroad with my company. (I already checked I could create a Delaware inc)

Europe tries to catch up to the Silicon Valley startup scene. But stuff like this makes it pretty clear that EU is too retarded.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#370

Post by jostmey »

Here's what will probably happen. A handful of websites and news outlets will create blanket legal agreements allowing anyone to freely link to their content. There may be some online paperwork that flies back and forth between the content provider and the person wanting to create the link. Websites offering these blanket agreements will flourish. Websites that do not provide their content for free will go unnoticed and undiscovered by the internet. Eventually, all websites in Europe will offer blanket agreements for anyone to freely link to their content.

The net result of this proposed law will be more paperwork and more lawyers. In the long run, it will not accomplish its stated goals. It will simply slow down digital innovation in Europe and destroy any European dreams of becoming the next silicon valley

Post reply on HN