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Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

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Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#361

Post by dagw »

jimmydddd wrote: post #360
tmaly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Yes-- we need price information. A family member (US citizen) lives in Europe and has free government health care there, but you often have to wait several months to get treated. Instead of waiting, she thought she might just do needed cataract surgery in the US to get it done if it didn't cost too much. I called several medical centers that do cataract surgery for an estimate. Can't provide it. Can you give a ballpa…

Instead of waiting, she thought she might just do needed cataract surgery in the US

Just about every country in Europe has private hospitals that will do non-emergency surgeries without wait if you pay. They'll also have no problem quoting you a fairly exact cost if you call them up.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#362

Post by chimeracoder »

DanBC wrote: post #355
chimeracoder wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've failed to correct for over-testing, over-diagnosis, and over-treatment which all cause harm. It's worrying that the US places so much emphasis on 5 year survival rates, and not on eg all cause mortality. I'm not, if you actually read the research I linked instead of speculating.

I have read the research. You're using 5 year survival rates, not all cause mortality. This causes people to get tested, get treated, and sometimes get harmed by that treatment, but does not extend their life.

> You're using 5 year survival rates, not all cause mortality. This causes people to get tested, get treated, and sometimes get harmed by that treatment, but does not extend their life

This is discussed and addressed in each of the three instances of the study that have been conducted, so I recommend reading those for the response.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#363

Post by elliekelly »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #352
elliekelly wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes! I’m embarrassed to have assumed your doctor was a male. Thanks for pointing that out :)

Why would you be embarrassed? Most doctors are male, this is a fact. I'm ashamed that your ashamed of this. Sexism is bad but to be ashamed of this, which is clearly not sexism is embarrassing and emasculating.

> emasculating.

I think you've meant this as an insult by insinuating my comment somehow made me "less of a man."

Swing & a miss.

As you can clearly discern from my username, I'm a woman, so I don't much care about your opinion of my "manliness."

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you feel the need to attack someone's "masculinity" when you disagree with something they've said rather than discussing your disagreement on the merits.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#364

Post by crimsonalucard »

elliekelly wrote: post #363
crimsonalucard wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be embarrassed? Most doctors are male, this is a fact. I'm ashamed that your ashamed of this. Sexism is bad but to be ashamed of this, which is clearly not sexism is embarrassing and emasculating.

> emasculating. I think you've meant this as an insult by insinuating my comment somehow made me "less of a man." Swing & a miss. As you can clearly discern from my username, I'm a woman, so I don't much care about your opinion of my "manliness." Perhaps you should ask yourself why you feel the need to attack someone's "masculinity" when you disagree with something they've said rather than discussing your disagreemen…

No i did not mean to be insulting at all. I mean that its emasculating to all men to consider such an assumption that is statistically valid to be shameful.

Assuming that someone is a he instead of a she no matter the circumstance is not in any way shameful. Neither is it the other way around but you'll never hear someone being ashamed that they assumed a doctor was a she instead of a he.

It's only in certain places and modern times where people have to be so careful about non-issues. A mistaken pronoun is a non-issue made into an issue by fear of sexism.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#365

Post by joelx »

tmaly wrote: post #181
cletus wrote: post #34

In Australia the Leftist government of Gough Whitlam introduced health-coverage-for-all in 1975 with a scheme called Medibank. In 1984 after a couple of governments, Bob Hawke's Leftist government created the Medicare scheme (Medibank became a government provider of private health insurance), which exists to this day. The most interesting stat I ever heard about Medicare was this: prior to Medicare the number one cau…

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Our healthcare system is set up for the enrichment of doctors at the expense of patients. Here is a great article showing this yet again. When you go get a fast food hamburger for $1.49, you will only extremely rarely receive a poorly made burger or have a billing mistake or get food poisoning. So why are you virtually guaranteed to not get what you pay for and get overbilled anytime you visit a hospital? The doctors union has strictly prevented any kind of competition and innovation in healthcare.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#366

Post by vsl »

dagw wrote: post #361
jimmydddd wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes-- we need price information. A family member (US citizen) lives in Europe and has free government health care there, but you often have to wait several months to get treated. Instead of waiting, she thought she might just do needed cataract surgery in the US to get it done if it didn't cost too much. I called several medical centers that do cataract surgery for an estimate. Can't provide it. Can you give a ballpa…

Instead of waiting, she thought she might just do needed cataract surgery in the US Just about every country in Europe has private hospitals that will do non-emergency surgeries without wait if you pay. They'll also have no problem quoting you a fairly exact cost if you call them up.

Not universally true.

I can't get better care even if I pay for it, I'm only legally allowed to pay only for trivia; the only care available to me is the "free" (read: costing ~8% of my income in mandatory medical tax) one with, yes, months of waiting and nobody giving a damn about you.

It's almost certainly better than the US system, but it's not all roses in EU either.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#367

Post by elliekelly »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #364
elliekelly wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> emasculating. I think you've meant this as an insult by insinuating my comment somehow made me "less of a man." Swing & a miss. As you can clearly discern from my username, I'm a woman, so I don't much care about your opinion of my "manliness." Perhaps you should ask yourself why you feel the need to attack someone's "masculinity" when you disagree with something they've said rather than discussing your disagreemen…

No i did not mean to be insulting at all. I mean that its emasculating to all men to consider such an assumption that is statistically valid to be shameful. Assuming that someone is a he instead of a she no matter the circumstance is not in any way shameful. Neither is it the other way around but you'll never hear someone being ashamed that they assumed a doctor was a she instead of a he. It's only in certain places…

I was (and still am) embarrassed that I assumed any gender at all but I think I understand your point a bit better.

You might be interested to know that there have been several studies that demonstrate how gendered comments like mine do impact gender bias & inequality. We're increasingly discovering that our thoughts shape our language and our language shapes our thoughts. A very thorough explanation of the research can be found here.[1]

[1]http://oxfordre.com/communication/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780...

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#368

Post by dagw »

vsl wrote: post #366
dagw wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of waiting, she thought she might just do needed cataract surgery in the US Just about every country in Europe has private hospitals that will do non-emergency surgeries without wait if you pay. They'll also have no problem quoting you a fairly exact cost if you call them up.

Not universally true. I can't get better care even if I pay for it, I'm only legally allowed to pay only for trivia; the only care available to me is the "free" (read: costing ~8% of my income in mandatory medical tax) one with, yes, months of waiting and nobody giving a damn about you. It's almost certainly better than the US system, but it's not all roses in EU either.

I don't know where you are, but if nothing else there is nothing stopping you from getting on the next plane/train to Germany or wherever and having the operation done there.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#369

Post by 5trokerac3 »

burkaman wrote: post #324
5trokerac3 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This entire article and thread is about cancer, so I'm not cherry picking. If anything the broad "health outcomes" is a diversion from the main subject. 2. What percentage of poorer "health outcomes" are due to the US's ~33% obesity rate and overall horrid diet and have nothing to do with care or access?

You're right about 1, sorry. Obesity and diet are very much related to care and access. If you can't afford to go to the doctor unless you're dying, nobody is going to tell you when your cholesterol is getting too high and you should adjust your diet, or your blood sugar is getting into the warning zone, or whatever. We have such high obesity because we don't focus enough on preventative care, and lots of people can'…

Thanks for acknowledging that. It's not something you commonly see in forums.

I have a hard time swallowing the idea that obesity and diet are related to access to medical care. Our great great grandparents undoubtedly had far less access to healthcare than even the average lower class, modern American, and yet obesity was almost non-existent for their generation.

Occam's razor would say that an epidemic of diet related illness is caused by a societal shift in diet. The simplistic boiling down of the complex answer from nutrition experts is that the massive increase in processed foods in the American diet, post WWII, along with the insane increase in sugar consumption, have led to the obesity and diabetes epidemics (and increasingly believed to be one of the main causes of cancer).

IMHO we could do exponentially more for the life expectancy of poor Americans by solving the problem of food deserts than by upending the entire medical system, that is functional for the majority, for a wholly bureaucratically controlled system - which, by the way, will eventually have to include decisions on which people do not get access to treatment.

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