Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#361

Post by tc313 » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

JdeBP wrote: post #124

endorphone wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix hasn't, to my knowledge, even filed their 2018 annual yet (or their Q4 2018), so I'm not sure what they're even basing their numbers on. But they admit elsewhere that Netflix paid taxes most of the preceding years, averaging out around 13.5%. In the end their tax lawyers do exactly what tax lawyers do, and unless they're breaking the law so be it. As an aside, it's rich that it's always Americans complaining…

Netflix unaudited numbers for the 12 months ending 2018-12-31 were published on the 17th of last month. 15.216M USD in income tax paid, if I am reading the statement correctly. Income before tax during that period is stated to be 1.226G USD. Income tax rebate of 73.608M USD in the 12 months ending 2017-12-31, for comparison.

According to the supplemental items on the cash flow statement, Netflix technically paid $131 million in cash for income taxes during fiscal 2018. But it's true that it only owes $15 million for its operations during the year.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#362

Post by 24gttghh » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #256

chanandler_bong wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

>The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. No it wouldn't. Our current regulated lobby 'industry' is an attempt to control something that would happen ANYWAY if it was made illegal. Furthermore, lobbying is necessary and a core part of any democracy. You need to be able to petition your representative government for changes, regardless if you're a regular citizen, an activist, a business owne…

Speeding happens anyway even though it is illegal, but at least there are legal consequences for speeding to deter people.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#363

Post by OrwellianChild » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #350

OrwellianChild wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the average worker has any stock or index fund investments, that worker absolutely can take advantage of this (in the U.S.). It's called tax-loss harvesting - worth reading about here [1]. [1] https://www.madfientist.com/tax-loss-harvesting/

There is no good reason investment income should be privileged over income from labor.

At risk of bottoming out on the threaded replies, I'd be interested in talking through how that would work...

Let's say you wanted to give income from labor the same benefits as (negative) income from investments that lost money... How would you do that?

Say I earn a healthy $250K/year at my W-2 job. If I buy a large house with the proceeds from my job, have I incurred a loss? How about if I eat out at an expensive restaurant every night, spending my entire paycheck. Do I get to avoid taxes by keeping my lifestyle expensive?

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#364

Post by codexon » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #309

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. The average worker isn't allowed to do that even when they lose money in a given year. Why is it so naturally assumed to be acceptable for a business to do it? Maybe the time is to just remove the loopholes in general from both business and personal income taxes.

If the average worker has any stock or index fund investments, that worker absolutely can take advantage of this (in the U.S.). It's called tax-loss harvesting - worth reading about here [1]. [1] https://www.madfientist.com/tax-loss-harvesting/

You can only harvest $3000 in losses per year if you have more capital losses than capital gains.

That is laughably small.

And you can't deduct the losses from your other income while you can as a business.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#365

Post by throwaway190102 » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

Xixi wrote: post #267

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just outlaw legislation written by lobbyists. If Congressmen have to do the actual work of writing, it would end up being simpler than the specially crafted 500pg bills nobody reads. It isn't too much to ask elected officials to do the work they signed up for.

What you are saying is quite interesting: basically if lawmakers need to have the skill of writing laws, then it means that they must be very educated in law matters. Lawyers, basically, which makes a lot of sense. But on the other hand if you restrict congressmanship (is that a word?) to such a small and biased sample of the population, how are they supposed to understand the actual problems of the population at lar…

>elected officials need to form an elite of superior intelligence and ability to comprehend the world

This is much less of a problem if you can hold down scope-creep on the role and responsibilities of government.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#366

Post by tfandango » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #150

tfandango wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is, like most problems. I tend to favor the idea of term limits but while discussing this with a friend who used to work in politics, he made a good point I thought. His experience is that the staff change is the real problem in a political change. The ramp up time for a new staff is very long, the politician would not be able to get much done until the staff figures everything out, then it would be time t…

Which is why it's crazy to me that you wouldn't want to keep your predecessor's staff around.

Totally agree. It should not be about which party your staff comes from.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#367

Post by 24gttghh » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #121

chanandler_bong wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

I’m not sure what we are mad about here, that companies and individuals want good tax laws? I am not sure how Netflix’s alleged tax rate hurts anyone. Remember, 45% of Americans pay no federal income tax at all! How about we complain about that first assuming the goal is that everyone pay their fair share. There is no argument that is logical that can justify the top 20% of earners paying 70% of all income taxes. Nob…

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/06/a-closer-loo...

Your 45% number is misleading on it's own. People don't pay income tax because they had so little income to tax in the first place.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#368

Post by ramshorns » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:34 PM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #309

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. The average worker isn't allowed to do that even when they lose money in a given year. Why is it so naturally assumed to be acceptable for a business to do it? Maybe the time is to just remove the loopholes in general from both business and personal income taxes.

If the average worker has any stock or index fund investments, that worker absolutely can take advantage of this (in the U.S.). It's called tax-loss harvesting - worth reading about here [1]. [1] https://www.madfientist.com/tax-loss-harvesting/

The average worker probably doesn't have any investments and is losing money by having more expenses than income.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#369

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #34

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

>"If you don't like the law elect different politicians."

What an incredibly naive statement that is. Of the 11K registered lobbyists in Washington, DC more than half of them 6200 of them worked on tax related issues in 2017. 4,200 of them specifically on tax reform[1][2][3] Put another way that is 11 lobbyists for every individual member of congress. The lobbyists are the ones shaping the tax code. Further tax reform is a generational thing, the last time it was taken up was under Reagan in 1986. Simply "electing different politicians" will accomplish nothing.

>"Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law."

No, one of the reasons that the US is great place to start a business is because there's a mature legal system, a stable government, and infrastructure and those things take money to run. If the country provides an environment that allowed a Netflix to start up and prosper then why shouldn't that company be expected to help pay for all those things? Both individual and corporations should share the burden of that. So no the anger is not "misdirected" at all when it's directed at entity who's shirking their responsibility. Just because something is legal does not necessarily make it right.

[1] https://www.citizen.org/sites/default/files/swamped-tax-lobb...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/us/politics/lobbyists-tax...

[3] https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/...

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#370

Post by standardUser » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

otachack wrote: post #46

driverdan wrote: post #34

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

It's not that simple. Companies lobby to keep, even coerce, laws that benefit them and allow these sorts of things to happen. What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? I believe one way is to actually be involved in politics and get into the seats that govern and make the laws. But it's easier said than done.

To be fair, at least 40% of the "common" people reliably vote for candidates that are very up front about that fact that they will support low taxes for businesses.

This isn't some conspiracy of giant corporations and lobbyists beating down the will of the people. This IS the will of the people. In many regions it's the overwhelming majority of the people.