US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages • Hacker News Board

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#361

Post by xtian » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

javagram wrote: post #285

warrenm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a recipe for gridlock That was the whole point of how the government of the US was designed: it's supposed to be hard to "get things done" at the federal level

Yea, because the feds were supposed to only handle post roads, the military, and free trade between the states and tariffs on international commerce. The modern welfare state, where millions of people are immediately hurt by the federal system grinding to a halt and stopping, would have been anathema to the framers. Nevertheless by popular vote such programs have been federalized and now we have a constitution that d…

> The modern welfare state, where millions of people are immediately hurt by the federal system grinding to a halt and stopping, would have been anathema to the framers.

So too would have been the dominance of corporate interests in the political system. But here we are.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#362

Post by wongarsu » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

tibbon wrote: post #56

wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time, and if they don't have months or years of savings in the bank then it's just their fault". It's really sad that instead of being compassionate, too many are focusing on what "should" be instead of what is the reality for many people. Like you point out, the reality is that most people don't have savings. They shoul…

> I've seen too many people say, "Oh, government workers should all know this stuff happens all the time

The thing is: it doesn't happen all the time. In the last 20 years there were 3 government shutdowns. Before Trump took office we were down to one shutdown in 20 years.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#363

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

javagram wrote: post #285

warrenm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a recipe for gridlock That was the whole point of how the government of the US was designed: it's supposed to be hard to "get things done" at the federal level

Yea, because the feds were supposed to only handle post roads, the military, and free trade between the states and tariffs on international commerce. The modern welfare state, where millions of people are immediately hurt by the federal system grinding to a halt and stopping, would have been anathema to the framers. Nevertheless by popular vote such programs have been federalized and now we have a constitution that d…

As I recall, not even the military, at least not in any way like we're doing it now.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#364

Post by akhilcacharya » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #321

akhilcacharya wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial airliners do not take off in non-towered airports.

There are many Commercial flights every day to non-towered airports. In backcounty Alaska this is the norm. Clearly you have a big-city bias in your thinking.

OK, that's fair. Didn't consider Alaska which is known for these requirements.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#365

Post by bdcravens » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #338

bdcravens wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the job. There are some jobs where refusal to do your job may carry significant legal penalties (imagine if airline traffic controllers walked out with planes in the air)

How exactly is being legally forced to come in to a job, especially one that isn't even paying you, not either slavery or at least indentured servitude?

It's only that if you are not allowed to quit. And while this is somewhat pedantic, they are being "paid", but the release of that pay hasn't been authorized. Their situation is total shit to be certain, but comparisons to bona fide slavery are dramatic.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#366

Post by jdhn » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

javagram wrote: post #285

warrenm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a recipe for gridlock That was the whole point of how the government of the US was designed: it's supposed to be hard to "get things done" at the federal level

Yea, because the feds were supposed to only handle post roads, the military, and free trade between the states and tariffs on international commerce. The modern welfare state, where millions of people are immediately hurt by the federal system grinding to a halt and stopping, would have been anathema to the framers. Nevertheless by popular vote such programs have been federalized and now we have a constitution that d…

I follow what's happening in the craft beer world, and some brewers are up in arms due to the fact that the government has to approve labels for all beers that are sold across state lines, or else they could potentially face career ending fines. How on earth did we get from a limited federal government to one that acts as a morality police for beer labels?

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#367

Post by VideriQuamEsse » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #257

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #87

I hope not too off topic, but I'm puzzled by shutdowns. Every other country I can think of has a system where if the finance is not agreed, the previous budget just continues. The budget sets the yearly amount for each department and it runs on until another budget changes how much everyone gets. Sometimes a new department gets created, sometimes something is abolished. Everyone gets their salary and services run on.…

My understanding as an outsider is that I think the problem is with the debt ceiling. Legally the president (who proposes the budget) needs approval from Congress to borrow beyond the debt ceiling. The US government has for quite some time run a budget deficit, so the only budget that can apply would be a budget with significant cuts in government spending. As such, even keeping the existing budget ticking would exce…

> I think the problem is with the debt ceiling.

While the debt ceiling issue is also frequently in the news, that is not what's going on here. In this case, the government has the money, they're just not allowed to spend anything.

In the US, unlike many other democracies, budgets expire. So in order for the government to continue functioning normally, the legislative branch has to pass a new budget bill before the previous one expires, which did not happen in this case.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#368

Post by busterarm » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

bilbo0s wrote: post #354

busterarm wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a real business, the finance department and the CEO wouldn't be locking horns over what to use company money for and it would never block payroll.

In fairness it's not really the finance department and the ceo, it's the ceo and the board locking horns. And the ceo and the board decided to shutdown the whole company until they get their little tiff ironed out. (Which, yeah, was a pretty dumb idea. But the ceo and the board are kind of known for having dumb ideas.)

No, it really is the finance department. Boards vote on the CEO and serve as his advisors and that is certainly not the correct metaphor.

More importantly, Congress sets the budget through the House and Senate budget committees, which then draft and pass appropriations bills. This is the point in the process where we are stuck.

The President is saying "bring me budget bills that have the things I want and I won't veto them" and Congress is saying no. It's nothing new really, barely anyone knows basic civics and so people are letting their emotions drive their opinions.

Both parties here are playing games that affect peoples' lives and are both worthy of blame.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#369

Post by AnabeeKnox » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

anant90 wrote: post #2

Was the fall of Rome this embarrassing as well?

I visit Hacker News to avoid dross comments such as these.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#370

Post by rootusrootus » Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

This is pretty silly. Congress thinks they can't continue to fund government activities, but they certainly don't suspend tax collection. It would be easy to solve the "shutdown" and "debt ceiling" fictions, except they are too useful as a political weapon.