Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#361

Post by mushufasa » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #349

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #32

I've had negative reviews flat out removed by a company that was paying glass door for some sort of premium service. I extensively reviewed the rules and reworded my comments and they were removed yet again. My points were fully factually true and were not anything too untoward (pay raises were promised to members of a new team, they never materialized, most team members left). For what it's worth, Path Forward IT is…

This tells me that Glassdoor is completely untrustworthy, just like Yelp. I wish there was some sort of business model for an honest review site that protected against this sort of naked corruption. Does anyone have any ideas?

I'm also interested in this question. Here's a half-idea for discussion purposes:

Review sites must be free for readers and reviewers. So, the revenue either has to somehow come from

1. end-users indirectly (like how HackerNews helps YCombinator attract quality investments)

2. a group that has users' best interests at heart, as well as a financial incentive (google's personalization helps readers find relevant searches as well as helping advertisers target... maybe not a 100% perfect example but you get the idea)

3. a diverse array of paying customers such that no one interest overpowers the others.

Any ideas in Glassdoor's context?

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#362

Post by adjkant » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

mushufasa wrote: post #215

There are so many comments here complaining about Glassdoor's business model. I'm really genuinely curious -- what do you folks thing is a better option for them? Given the constraints that they are a job review site, and they have to make the service free to the people leaving reviews (low barrier to entry), how do you propose they make money as a sustainable business?

I think problems like this is why we need to consider opening up the idea of what is a "public utility" in the modern world. There are simply many things that are valuable to a large number of people that don't have good business models in a capitalist society. Honest workplace reviews sound like a great candidate for that.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#363

Post by Reedx » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #191

Reedx wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> removed by a company that was paying glass door for some sort of premium service Is there any proof of this? Source?

The reviews were deleted seconds after they were posted and their profile has a icon that indicates they pay glassdoor for additional services. A coworker that also left had the same experience I did when he posted his review.

That's still not proof companies can delete them, though. There are other possible explanations.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#364

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #295

jecxjo wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in an area where the nearest competition was hundreds of miles away. When the engineering staff would question upper management and HR during annual meetings about competitive wages they would always state that we were extremely competitive for our location. After working there for nearly a decade and a half I moved to another state, about 300 miles away and my pay nearly doubled. Doing my exit interview I s…

It seems like a really backwards view to see your company as the "only game in town". Physically, it might be true, but you're competing with remote only companies, and regional competing cities. You're also indirectly competing with hubs such as California or Seattle where jobs are plentiful. This is a really interesting comment, thanks for sharing.

But that same dynamic is even more prevalent in non-tech sectors. My wife had two such jobs so far.

In the first case, the boss was quite explicit about abusing the scarcity of office jobs in the area (a cluster of small villages and towns). Forced overtime, late paychecks, bad working conditions and verbal abuse were all maintained by a simple threat - "where else will you go?".

In the second case, the job had decent working conditions, but the management had constant troubles finding wood workers (leading them to shutting down a promising department, in which my wife was doing design work), mostly because they tried to low-ball salaries - thinking that in this part of the country, there are lower costs of living and few other jobs for this kind of production, so they can offer below-market pay.

Both businesses are still thriving to this day, and still have mentioned problems.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#365

Post by wolco » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:32 PM UTC

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #191

Reedx wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> removed by a company that was paying glass door for some sort of premium service Is there any proof of this? Source?

The reviews were deleted seconds after they were posted and their profile has a icon that indicates they pay glassdoor for additional services. A coworker that also left had the same experience I did when he posted his review.

Everyone should review them then.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#366

Post by mark-r » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #73

sevensor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Run from any prospective employer who tells you, "we're like a family." They mean it an all the worst ways. Feuding, dysfunction, racist uncles, getting kicked out of the house.

I just sat through a company wide "Sensitivity Training" at my company (which I'm very much looking forward to leaving, and leaving a review for,) where "We're a family" was repeated ad nausium. I was a little shocked that this was coming from HR and Staff. It was almost a cultish call and response of bullshit. The reality is, we're not family. I don't have to be sensitive to my family. If I don't like them, I can sa…

Remember that HR exists to keep the company out of trouble. If everybody has gone through sensitivity training and later someone gets in trouble for doing something insensitive, they can blame the person instead of being accused of having a toxic environment.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#367

Post by adamzerner » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

I worked for a company where we were told to post good reviews on Glassdoor. The engineering team was small, there was about six people in the room. The CTO called for our attention. He told us to go on Glassdoor and leave a good review. He explained that they are trying to hire more people and that good Glassdoor reviews really help. He also ended by telling us that management will be checking in to make sure that we all actually did leave reviews.

I felt really upset at the fact that we were _told_ to do this, and basically threatened that if we didn't, management would know, and presumably there would be some sort of consequences. When the CTO left the room we all kinda mumbled something along the lines of "um, that was kinda screwed up", but no one really voiced that opinion loudly or strongly. Probably due to the fear of getting punished for it.

This whole situation is really sad. It's probably in the companies best interest financially to do this. It forces employees to respond, because employees don't want to be punished. And there isn't a way to punish employers for this. I doubt that it is illegal. I doubt that Glassdoor would care if you went to them. If you publish a public review, you'll almost certainly lose your job, and even so, the company can just claim that you are lying, and probably pay to get the review removed.

On the other side of the coin, there is Glassdoor. They exist to make money, so if a company wants to pay them to remove bad reviews or something, why wouldn't they say yes. There is no third party monitoring them, making sure that they are being honest.

Maybe one day society will figure out a way around these issues, but for now, I think a good first step is to spread an understanding that what you read on sites like Glassdoor should be taken with a big grain of salt. And so I am glad to see this getting attention on Hacker News.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#368

Post by mushufasa » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

kansface wrote: post #330

The capture of rating agencies by the entities they would rate seems to be common if not inevitable given the incentives - the companies being rated have a strong financial incentive to fix their ratings while at the same time, the consumers don't pay for the service. So, the agencies eventually go after the only money in play and turn into a protection racket, and perhaps make room in the market for a new agency sub…

Yes this is the dynamic.

Is it inevitable? Are there solutions, or at least mitigations?

This is also a problem (huge problem) with credit ratings and investment rating agencies.

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#369

Post by usrusr » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #161

freedomben wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The contrarian jerk in me really wanted to yell an epithet during training and say something along the lines of "What, if we're a family, I'm the racist uncle that your dad keeps inviting to dinner despite his offensive tirades and uncomfortable leering at your sister. LOL. But in general I very much agree. Equating a workplace with a family is gross, and a bit cult-ish. I do think the workplace (and the world) wou…

Family as a reference is horrible. Everyone has a different family dynamic and experience. Some families have unconditional loyalty, others have abusive controlling members, the list of dysfunctions is endless. The cult should be formed around "a team" that has shared values and operates upon agreed acceptable behaviors.

> Some families have unconditional loyalty, others have abusive controlling members

Don't those two usually come in pairs?

Re: Companies Manipulate Glassdoor by Inflating Rankings and Pressuring Employees

#370

Post by walshemj » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #156

chaostheory wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imo this is endemic in areas with poor job markets where there's really about 1 or 2 large employers. It's not just time to leave the company; you need to leave the whole area as well.

I'm in an area with lots of employers, but 20 years ago I did some job-hopping (four jobs in four years between 95 and 99), and that STILL comes up as a negative in job interviews. If you bail on too many bad managers, you can find yourself locked out anyway.

I would try a pitch or thematic CV instead of a linear one