The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange • Hacker News Board

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#361

Post by kodablah » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #356

thanosnose wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if "all a man is, is what others say of him," then by watching the news, Assange is just a Russian agent. One of the most interesting aspect of the assange story is how the news industry celebrated assange in the early part of the 2010s and then started to demonize him in the past few years. It was all so sudden as if someone flipped a switch and everyone got on the same message. It's also interesting how sexua…

Assange and Wikileaks have been demonised because they decided to release information in such a way as to deliberately influence an election. The DNC/Podesta leaks were timed specifically to cause maximum negative effect to Clinton and the Democrats. Then there's the lack of curation in some of the leaks. A lot of personal data that shouldn't be public by any means (e.g. medical information, sexual identity) has been…

Exactly as you state (though maybe not intend). Those cheering him on didn't care about the reasons, lack of curation, content choice, etc since they were ok with who was maligned. Once those cheering him disagreed with who was hurt, it starts to "feel" different and concerns about reason, lack of curation, and content choice magically become important.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#362

Post by fthssht » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:23 AM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #342

rdtsc wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his case will be closely studied for years. And it is how propaganda works. There is no coordination between the 5 or 6 or however many media outlets but it seems as if there is turn almost based on how quickly he went from a martir to Russian puppet in just a year or less. Same thing kind of happened to Greenwald though to a lesser degree.

You say this like the perception of him is entirely manufactured and divorced from any reality. Assange's image changed abruptly in 2016 because that is the year he went from politically agnostic public interest leaks to actively trying to influence an election and backing a candidate who considers the free press an "enemy of the people". It doesn't take a conspiratorial cabal to explain how Assange ruined his own im…

Its really amazing that you would try to defend free press in a discussion about Assange. Locking up Assange is an attack on free press. Trump calling CNN liars actually isn't. Obama calling Fox liars wouldn't be either.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#363

Post by lern_too_spel » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:25 AM UTC

hnmonkey wrote: post #156

roywiggins wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be accurate to model his operations in two phases. The first, when he was exposing secrets on his own. The second, when (it seems) Russia used him as a deniable way to launder secrets they had stolen into the American press. Exactly when one phase begins and the other ends, whether he knew it was happening at the time, and whether he committed any crimes against the United States during the second phase is m…

I agree with you somewhat. It seems that he initially wanted to buck the system and expose secrets for the purpose of exposing secrets and anarchy. It's possible this was a fantastic cover and he's always worked at someone's behest. Agreed completely with your 2nd phase. I don't think it works for Snowden. I actually believe he was ardently an American patriot who wanted to expose what he thought were illegalities an…

He absolutely didn't end up in Russia of his own choosing. He planned to stay in Hong Kong, and he leaked a list of hacked Chinese targets in an attempt to gain the PRC's favor, but they kicked him out as soon as he had nothing more of interest, just as you would expect.

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1266777/exclusiv...

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#364

Post by sjg007 » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:26 AM UTC

I hope and pray that some smart lawyers come to his defense in both in England, Ecuador, and the USA. I hope that "we" are collectively smart enough to support him (and Snowden). He is probably not a Russian agent... all of that talk is a distraction (especially with Mueller).. if Russia left him out to dry then they would seriously curtail their intelligence operations... after all memes and fake news are far more effective.

If he is a Russian agent, the Prisoners Dilemma applies: Will Trump pardon or will Russia declare? Russia has more to lose here. Maybe there is a way out for Russia and the US but I doubt it. This is actually an interesting case.. a 3 party prisoners dilemma.. any ideas?

One of my biggest regrets is not supporting Aaron.. at the time it would not have been much but maybe collectively and everyone together. Maybe we were too late to recognize that he was ahead of his time... and maybe we still are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#365

Post by mjevans » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:26 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #356

thanosnose wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if "all a man is, is what others say of him," then by watching the news, Assange is just a Russian agent. One of the most interesting aspect of the assange story is how the news industry celebrated assange in the early part of the 2010s and then started to demonize him in the past few years. It was all so sudden as if someone flipped a switch and everyone got on the same message. It's also interesting how sexua…

Assange and Wikileaks have been demonised because they decided to release information in such a way as to deliberately influence an election. The DNC/Podesta leaks were timed specifically to cause maximum negative effect to Clinton and the Democrats. Then there's the lack of curation in some of the leaks. A lot of personal data that shouldn't be public by any means (e.g. medical information, sexual identity) has been…

If that's the real reason, then it must also be asked if there was any special influence by Assanage on the timing or if a service created by them was merely used as a conduit.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#366

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:29 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #364

I hope and pray that some smart lawyers come to his defense in both in England, Ecuador, and the USA. I hope that "we" are collectively smart enough to support him (and Snowden). He is probably not a Russian agent... all of that talk is a distraction (especially with Mueller).. if Russia left him out to dry then they would seriously curtail their intelligence operations... after all memes and fake news are far more e…

AIPAC will never let that stand. Human rights are okay, as long as those countries are either neutral or allied with Israel.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#367

Post by narag » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:29 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #157

consumer451 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are responding to textbook whataboutism, aka “tu quoque logical fallacy.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I suggest you read the article you linked.

I suggest you read the article you linked.

Please review carefully the chain of comments, because it seems there could be some misunderstanding there: consumer451 was answering to darawk, not to you. Maybe instead of "to textbook whataboutism" was meant to be "with textbook whataboutism"?

Otherwise this thread is total nonsense to me. No surprise either...

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#368

Post by kodablah » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:31 AM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #342

rdtsc wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his case will be closely studied for years. And it is how propaganda works. There is no coordination between the 5 or 6 or however many media outlets but it seems as if there is turn almost based on how quickly he went from a martir to Russian puppet in just a year or less. Same thing kind of happened to Greenwald though to a lesser degree.

You say this like the perception of him is entirely manufactured and divorced from any reality. Assange's image changed abruptly in 2016 because that is the year he went from politically agnostic public interest leaks to actively trying to influence an election and backing a candidate who considers the free press an "enemy of the people". It doesn't take a conspiratorial cabal to explain how Assange ruined his own im…

That some believe pre-2016 leaks were not political shows more about their bias than Wikileaks's motives. That motive matters now and didn't then shows similar bias.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#369

Post by mjevans » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:33 AM UTC

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #153

hnmonkey wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While some of the things that were exposed were certainly illegal and should be handled as such, it's hard to feel any empathy for a guy who is essentially a Russian asset. If you think of him as an extension of Russian military intelligence conducting propaganda wars against its adversaries then it becomes a lot easier to understand why prosecuting him is a genuinely good thing. Russia airing the dirty laundry of ot…

Well yeah, a US asset isn't going to publish the dirt on their patron. And nobody's asset will probably not enjoy much success publishing anything

In a world spies I could easily believe an asset would publish either minor/mostly harmless but still secret info and/or info of a party within their country or for rival factions within their country.

I just wouldn't even speculate on that unless there was a compelling reason to make such an assumption and also a way of confirming the theory.

Re: The US Is Preparing to Prosecute Julian Assange

#370

Post by nradov » Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 4:34 AM UTC

cronix wrote: post #286

nl wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's always been free to go, just that he'd likely to be arrested. Unclear what article you are referring to in the 'staying for attention' reference.

Yes, but the UN effectively say he's being detained, which I tend to agree with. It's like me standing there with a gun to your head saying if you take one more step, I'll shoot. Technically, you're "free to leave at any time," but that's not really the effective reality. > February 2016 - A UN panel rules that Mr Assange has been "arbitrarily detained" by UK and Swedish authorities since 2010 https://www.bbc.com/new…

UN panels have no legal jurisdiction over such issues. Their rulings are entirely irrelevant.