Whole Foods workers seek to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#361

Post by ken » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #285

rawTruthHurts wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're saying that ..." No, that's not what he's saying, and no, a single person does not have the same leverage an entire collective has against a larger company.

But.. You're pregnant! You're entitled to maturity leave right? Isn't that normal? Why do you need "leverage"? I'm not kidding, so I'll ask again, even clearer. Does America not have the concept of maturity leave by law? Is it like considered a perk or something? I'm so confused because, well, where I live when you're pregnant, tell the boss is exactly what you'd do ! And then you get maturity leave. And the GGP says…

> ps. also you're not being very helpful with "No, that's not what he's saying" without telling me what he is saying.

It's a metaphor.

The implication is that in the absence of a bargaining organization and a written agreement, employees will go to their manager with a situation, and the manager will have to invent an individual policy on the spot, which will be more trouble for all, and probably worse for the employee. Certainly less fair, since not everybody has the same manager, or the same relationship with them.

Pregnancy is the vehicle of this metaphor. Nobody would claim that pregnant women would be better off without a written policy for maternity leave. All other situations are the tenor. There's no reason to believe that individual-serving-sized policies for other situations would work any better than for maternity leave.

sequoia isn't saying anything about maternity leave. They're using maternity leave as an example, to say something about the need for collective bargaining.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#362

Post by golergka » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #310

spacehome wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an employee is pregnant, no one is forcing the employee to show up for work. When people talk about maternity leave, they usually don't mean the ability to not show up for work (which is a given in a free society), but rather the obligation of the employer to pay the employee whether or not she shows up for work. This meaning of 'maternity leave' is not a legal requirement of employment in the US, though some empl…

> Employers are not and should not be required to pay you for work you are not doing. Most other developed countries seem to see that slightly differently. But ok, it is a stance you can discuss - however, it becomes enormously cynical when combined with the conservative aversion against welfare rights: So you're pregnant or sick and happen to not have enough resources to live from savings for a few months. If neithe…

> So you're pregnant or sick and happen to not have enough resources to live from savings for a few months. If neither the state nor the employers are obligated to help you, who exactly is?

Why would anybody be obligated to help you if you've decided to take up a hugely resourceful personal project?

Kids and pregnancy is expensive, and should remain so. How is making a kid is different from taking your time to go on a trip around the world, or recording an album, or doing anything else like that?

If you can't afford it, don't do it. It's that simple. Cases when it's out of your control (medical conditions) are different, of course, but they are not the norm and conversation about pregnancy and kids should not be revolving around them.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#363

Post by conanbatt » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #251

conanbatt wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the negotiation threat from a union?

Refusing to work unless conditions improve.

Then they all get fired, or progressively fired and replaced with non-unions.Not-working is not much of a leverage as much as non-selling is not a leverage for a company.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#364

Post by GabrielBen » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #253

conanbatt wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union leaders can aim for that they want, I personally commit to dissent all forms of that robbery and desire for a freer and more fair society. I do not want to fight for the spoils of exploitation.

I see. So you yearn for a world without capitalism.

Its not capitalism that creates spoils it is the government that takes money from people and then decides what to do with it.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#365

Post by lovich » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:41 PM UTC

aviv wrote: post #125

masonic wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are scummy in general. All the PEs near me stop cooking all their best entree items by 7PM on the theory that customers will accept whatever slop is left... yet they continue to offer all their items over mobile (they'll just happily tell you they "ran out" when you get there).

Panda Express is high up there in the list of nastiest fast food places. Pure garbage food. And as you probably know, they will gladly dump a fresh batch of Orange Chicken on top of a 3 hour old batch and so some portion of their entrees are kept on the hot plate for half a day. Nasty. What they do is criminal.

You should perhaps, never look at how food is prepared at any fast food location. At every food prep place I've worked, we only saw the big boss when they were running over to tell us to replace everything because they saw the health inspector. Usually they had the line manager telling us to replace nothing, and firing or reducing hours of employees who followed the posted food safety guides

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#366

Post by unethical_ban » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

amphibian87 wrote: post #221

unethical_ban wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to side with the guy who got flagged. Calling a space venture "corporatefascist", which isn't even a proper formation of a portmanteau, is so blindingly ignorant and confused on arguments, I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll start with... how is space exploration in itself fascist?

space bar dude. It's Amazon that's fascist, obviously not "space exploration" you pedant. Antitrust laws are not being applied to them or Google, or FB, Uber. Etc.

I also like the oxford comma. Something about how it makes a difference in the meaning of a sentence.

I still think the term "fascist" is being waaay overused in politics, much less when describing a bullying, cheating behemoth.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#367

Post by spacehome » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #328

spacehome wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an employee is pregnant, no one is forcing the employee to show up for work. When people talk about maternity leave, they usually don't mean the ability to not show up for work (which is a given in a free society), but rather the obligation of the employer to pay the employee whether or not she shows up for work. This meaning of 'maternity leave' is not a legal requirement of employment in the US, though some empl…

This is why we can't have nice things.

I agree. Yet people keep voting for socialism.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#368

Post by spacehome » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #310

spacehome wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an employee is pregnant, no one is forcing the employee to show up for work. When people talk about maternity leave, they usually don't mean the ability to not show up for work (which is a given in a free society), but rather the obligation of the employer to pay the employee whether or not she shows up for work. This meaning of 'maternity leave' is not a legal requirement of employment in the US, though some empl…

> Employers are not and should not be required to pay you for work you are not doing. Most other developed countries seem to see that slightly differently. But ok, it is a stance you can discuss - however, it becomes enormously cynical when combined with the conservative aversion against welfare rights: So you're pregnant or sick and happen to not have enough resources to live from savings for a few months. If neithe…

"Welfare rights"?!

That's a great neologism. It's now a right to take other people's paychecks?

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#369

Post by michaelt » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

gdfasfklshg4 wrote: post #276

bopbop wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, Let go is such an interesting term. It's such a well accepted piece of corporate doublespeak. It's like they want to go, and their employer is letting them. They're straining at the leash to be unemployed, and the employer graciously releases them from the burden of their contract. They're being fired.

Fired implies that the employee did something wrong. Let go is a euphemism for made redundant/laid off. I do agree that it is a euphemism.

In my experience, let go is a euphemism used to avoid saying if they were fired or made redundant.

Re: Whole Foods workers seek to unionize

#370

Post by jimmy1 » Fri, Sep 07, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #350

Multicomp wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Before today, I'd never heard of this terminology, and I'm next to a WF each workday.

People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate. It makes me question the thoughts of anyone who consistently uses them in an argument or rant. It feels as if the speaker is more interested in scoring laughs than making any point.

> People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate.

I shop at Whole Foods quite frequently. There isn't some conspiracy or nefarious intent in calling Whole Foods "Whole Paycheck" -- it's usually used amongst Whole Foods shoppers between themselves when they describe their shopping experience (...in my experience)

If it is still tough for you to grasp, I will break it down for you really simply.

Whole Foods sells the same shit you can now find at most any other grocery stores (even Food Lion and Walmart in some markets) at stupid high prices. It's colloquially referred to as "Whole Paycheck" because yes, it is a funny jab at the fact that you spend much more shopping for groceries there than any other grocery store. That's basically the end of the story. I can buy organic milk, eggs, bread, coffee, apples, bananas, some vegetables, and coconut water from Whole Foods and also Kroger (or Harris Teeter in my market) and I will easily spend at least 10 more dollars for those items at Whole Foods.

That's why it's called "Whole Paycheck" -- yes not by "everyone" but by enough people that random internet strangers that never have met before are agreeing that is what it is referred to at times.