Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#361

Post by wadkar » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #360

wadkar wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, the oppressors destroyed the native culture, robbed them off their wealth, social structures, and (however) evolved systems of institutions while leaving no venue for the colonized people to prosper. Few who managed to survive and climb through the inevitable mixing of peoples learnt some of the tricks from their oppressors and fought back for independence. I am afraid your comment sounds like it is trying to f…

Well, in some case it was a culture of slavery and piracy, so in those case it was an improvment. Infrastructure, education and sanitation were improved in some cases too. > I am afraid your comment sounds like it is trying to find some silver linings in the oppressors malevolence but please try to sympathize (if you cannot empathize) with those colonized. No, I was pointing that the schools decried by the parent wer…

> Infrastructure, education and sanitation were improved in some cases too.

And I would like to point out that they would’ve improved otherwise had the natives weren’t oppressed. In other words, the oppressors destroyed the ability of the natives to improve. The so called improvements happened despite being oppressed.

As for defending the schools, the same point applies - the oppressors destroyed the systems of education. Had they not invaded the natives and kept there greed to their homelands their wouldn’t be any need for defending these schools.

Edit: a word and newlines.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#362

Post by romanovcode » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

danirod wrote: post #14

Remember when WhatsApp required a subscription? One of the first changes made by Facebook after purchasing WhatsApp was to make it available for free. And now they're complaining they can't milk it enough? Oh dear. I know that a percentage of WhatsApp users would stop using the app if they started requiring a payment again –because apparently paying $1 per year for using an application on your $999 phone is outrageou…

> as an alternative to ads.

I didn't notice but is there ads on WhatsApp?

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#363

Post by baud147258 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

wadkar wrote: post #361

baud147258 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in some case it was a culture of slavery and piracy, so in those case it was an improvment. Infrastructure, education and sanitation were improved in some cases too. > I am afraid your comment sounds like it is trying to find some silver linings in the oppressors malevolence but please try to sympathize (if you cannot empathize) with those colonized. No, I was pointing that the schools decried by the parent wer…

> Infrastructure, education and sanitation were improved in some cases too. And I would like to point out that they would’ve improved otherwise had the natives weren’t oppressed. In other words, the oppressors destroyed the ability of the natives to improve. The so called improvements happened despite being oppressed. As for defending the schools, the same point applies - the oppressors destroyed the systems of educa…

I'd agree that some of the colonies would have improved had the colonisation not happened, but not everywhere: in some case it happened because the colonised powers did it. And most of them didn't have systems of education before the colonisation.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#364

Post by wadkar » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #363

wadkar wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Infrastructure, education and sanitation were improved in some cases too. And I would like to point out that they would’ve improved otherwise had the natives weren’t oppressed. In other words, the oppressors destroyed the ability of the natives to improve. The so called improvements happened despite being oppressed. As for defending the schools, the same point applies - the oppressors destroyed the systems of educa…

I'd agree that some of the colonies would have improved had the colonisation not happened, but not everywhere: in some case it happened because the colonised powers did it. And most of them didn't have systems of education before the colonisation.

> but not everywhere: in some case it happened because the colonised powers did it.

Could you please describe me such a scenario/situation where it would’ve or has had happened? The point of my argument hinges on the natives unability to improve due to the oppressors malevolence.

> And most of them didn't have systems of education before the colonisation.

Sure, most if not all of them didn’t have a Europian styled system of education. I don’t suppose you’re saying that the natives didn’t have any concept of educating their children? And yes, it would’ve improved too had they not been not destroyed …

Finally, I think we’ve digressed too far off the main thread of discussion. I feel like I am in the middle of https://www.xkcd.com/386/

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#365

Post by Tharkun » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #113

Marsymars wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because as someone who's willing to pay to not have ads, ads are a non-starter for me. If they're forced upon me, I'll switch products, and force anyone I communicate with to switch products to continue communicating with me. (If an individual won't install Signal, I'll drop down to SMS/email for them.)

In my experience, no, you can’t force alternatives on your friends and family, unless it’s an alternative they already have. No, they won’t install Signal. If that were a real possibility, you would have done it already. So SMS it is. But I wonder, isn’t SMS more expensive than $1 / year? SMS has had outrageously high rates compared with 3G. In some parts of the world that’s precisely the reason for WhatsApp’s popula…

SMS has been free (or very nearly free) for at least ten years over here. Pretty much any phone plan comes with unlimited messages or something like 10k/month, which most users won't reach.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#366

Post by drb91 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

bicubic wrote: post #269

drb91 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in this world there are more products and services around than people wanting to buy them, so people have to be convinced Or, the products could shut down, or lower their prices. If there’s no demand, why put energy into making demand rather than making something people want? It’s the lowest bar of achievement in this society; while I understand money can be a powerful motivator, this lowers the value of the en…

That's literally the endgame of capitalism. Capitalism is, and always has been, about reaching a state where supply exceeds demand. One could argue that once a business reaches that stage, they can put up a Mission Accomplished banner and fire most of their workforce. But because of how wealth is distributed, workers always need to be working so they're incentivized to extend the work and market as long as possible.…

Agreed! A good reason not to like capitalism.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#367

Post by ramsr » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

lx3459683 wrote: post #356

ramsr wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please point me to your research/rationale on why you think it's for the second rate?

I hold an MBA from one of the top schools in my country. It was a waste of time. MBA is highly dogmatic and highly prescriptive. It does not delve into the why. I can't draw a better analogy than the worthless certification courses that you'll find on the CVs of second-rate engineers. If you want someone who is leading their field in some technology, you look for researchers, people with significant on the ground exp…

so by your argument, you consider yourself a 2nd rate engineer and moved to make "medium bucks"?

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#368

Post by sp527 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

fooker wrote: post #276

sp527 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can report from the trenches of a major software consulting firm: putting a sharp engineer who's even reasonably good at communicating in front of the C-suite is 5-20x more effective than using someone with an MBA.

But is it the best use for the engineer's time? Does the engineer want to talk to a bunch of strangers every ..say.. week?

My role evolved in that direction, mostly because I was okay with it. Other roles can be designed to be cross-functional from the beginning. Generally it's a useful application of engineering time if it's a high-leverage situation with decision-makers in the room and meaningful potential deal value at stake.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#369

Post by anotheramala » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

xkjkls wrote: post #87

russellbeattie wrote: post #78

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

How many of their current users would actually be paying $1 a year? Over the long term how many more? Most of these products want to be free. If I'm paying $1 a year to WhatsApp and see my friend using a different app without being charged for it, I feel like I'm getting screwed. I find it hard to think of WhatsApp truly being a long term product with that business model. Two, claiming encouraging more ads on your pl…

I remember when they had the $1 cost it was 1 year free. They captured you in that time and then you didn't mind paying the $1 when all your friends were on it.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#370

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

salex89 wrote: post #173

There is nothing I would like more than Facebook to sell WhatsApp, so I'm at least a bit more out of their claws or, alternately, for WhatsApp to be ruined and all my friends go to some other messaging app. I've been a long user of WA and really love it, but I'm not a fan of FB, although I do have an account, but rarely use it for messaging.

[deleted]