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Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

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Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#361

Post by [deleted] »

MrEldritch wrote: post #179
wiredfool wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Sears do it with Discover, or is this a recent thing?

I was able to find the law I was thinking of, and it was passed in 1956, so not terribly recent, no. Apparently it's because the BHCA defines banks as entities marketing both checking accounts and commercial loans, and Discover Bank makes no commercial loans and is thus not, under the terms of that law, technically an actual bank. (Also, apparently the BHCA restricts banks from operating across state lines, too.)

[deleted]

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#362

Post by WorldMaker »

burkemw3 wrote: post #349
justinph wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Target's RedCard is a significant advantage they've built over all their competitors. They don't have to pay the fees, customers get a discount, and they get easy access to the data on your purchases. I'm surprised more retailers don't do it.

Many retailers have their own cards: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/store/

It's easy to forget too that the history of credit cards was that they started as store credit cards, and centralized and inter-operated from there. When credit cards first started you would have one per store only usable in that same store.

(Also note how gift cards/stored value cards/"prepaid credit" cards recently seem to be following a similar trajectory. It is somewhat fascinating.)

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#363

Post by kevin_b_er »

kccqzy wrote: post #94

Relevant: due to Ohio v. American Express , merchants are generally unable to steer customers from using a particular card. For example if a merchant accepts Visa at all, the merchant has to accept all Visa cards, not selectively choose the lower-fee cards; the merchant also cannot tell the customer to use Discover instead to save costs and only use Visa if that's the customer's only card. This anti-steering provisio…

The conservative-controlled court has generally ruled that a contract is a contract is a contract. A contract may void all rights and it may override the laws of the sovereign States. Contracts are the ultimate tool to subrogate rights into someone elses hands.

Once you understand that you can accidentally sign away human rights, a corporation signing away its "right" to speech under corporate personhood also makes complete sense.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#364

Post by mrep »

pgm8705 wrote: post #327
phkahler wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing. When I eat with a group of people, it's very common that I'm the only one who pays cash. It's also very common that taking care of my bill is the fastest of them all. It's easiest on the wait-persons time. But since the owners generally fuck over the wait staff anyway, it's…

In America, paying with cash is so much faster because of the still way too common and outdated process for credit cards: Bring bill to customer > walk away while they review > return to collect card > go to fixed portal to run transaction > return to customer with receipt > walk away again > return to collect receipt with tip amount More restaurants need to start adopting handheld terminals for waitstaff, which redu…

Also, it helps prevent credit card skimming since you can always see the card which is why I think it is even a law in some countries.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#365

Post by kevin_b_er »

MrEldritch wrote: post #127
toomuchtodo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re also trying to push Walmart Pay as well. At their scale, it’s worth it. Despite the pain, I still think Walmart should’ve acquired and rebranded a bank, and offered financial products. Would do wonders for the unbanked, while keeping their transaction fees down.

I seem to recall from a previous discussion about the possibility of Amazon buying a bank that such an arrangement would be extremely illegal. IIRC, there's a law expressly prohibiting any company from both acting as a bank and a retail business. edit: Yep, there is. The Bank Holding Company Act prevents companies in commerce from engaging in banking activities.

That was deregulated by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 and likely led to the subprime mortgage crisis. It permitted the creation of the "too big to fail" superbanks.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#366

Post by dang »

mmirate wrote: post #291
cycrutchfield wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

> tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate. Taxation is glorified theft, but in this case I don't care because these are acceptable targets.

If you continue to post uncivil/unsubstantive comments and use HN for ideological battle, we will ban you. We've already warned you more than once.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#367

Post by kasey_junk »

freeone3000 wrote: post #308
kasey_junk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but I think the argument is that because those merchant fees are unknowable no one can make intelligent choices around them. The disadvantaged are obviously more impacted but it’s possible that all of us not in credit card employ or shareholder are taxed. A prisoners dilemma sort of thing. But we are well past my economics understanding.

Unknowable? Visa: https://www.visa.ca/en_CAsupport/small-business/interchange.... Mastercard: https://www.mastercard.ca/content/dam/mccom/en-ca/Documents/... (PDF) AMEX is a bit harder to find, reseller is https://www.helcim.com/ca/american-express/

Its unknowable what merchants are marking their prices up as.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#368

Post by realityking »

alkonaut wrote: post #209
llewey wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

I know - I went to Berlin and noticed Taxis wanted cash and would not accept cards. Was like traveling 20 years back in time. I did not mean to say all places outside the US

Unfortunately you’ve been lied to.

Since 2015 Berlin taxis (note this doesn’t apply to the rest of Germany) are required by law to accept EC cards and at least 3 different credit card networks (which in practice means Visa, MasterCard and AmEx). If the reader is not operational they‘re comitting a misdemeanor. Best advice is to not pay and ask them call the police if disagree - usually the machines magically start working again.

Why are the drivers lying about it? The fee they‘re paying is relatively high (about 3%, but it‘s somewhat offset by a 1.50€ surcharge) but more commonly they‘re are either trying to avoid taxes and they‘re using someone’s taxi without holding a license themselves.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#369

Post by realityking »

gst wrote: post #237
Nursie wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very weird to this european.... but that's probably because fees here are capped at 0.3% and AFAICT there's not really such thing as a cashback card. (I think they used to exist, just not any more)

Are the fees also capped for foreign cards? I spend significant amounts of time in Europe each year (multiple months) and some of my US credit cards don't charge foreign transaction fees and also earn cashback on transactions done in Europe. I'm wondering who is losing money here - the merchant or the card issuer?

The cap only applies to European debit and credit cards used at an European merchant. It also doesn‘t apply to business cards or three-party schemes like AmEx or Diners (unless they‘re co-branded, due to a recent court ruling).

Based on this, I believe it‘she merchant who‘s picking up the tab here.

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