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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#361

Post by mda »

r_singh wrote: post #324
archi42 wrote: post #279

Site is under maintanance, Google Cache link (hahaha): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:europa.... //edit: oh, took only a minute or two :) nice work I really like this point: > [Google] has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks")…

I agree, if dropped, this will motivate big electronics players to release smart phones powered by android that aren't Google infested. Sometimes when I'm in a cynical mood, I feel like my android phone isn't really mine, it's owned by google and exists purely to serve them. This would improve the smartphone market on so many levels. We need a great driver support for AOSP, multiple app stores, community driven updat…

This is a funny comment. You can get a samsung infested phone anytime, or Amazon, or any something from China? AOSP is created and being developed by google, calling Google's applications infestation is weird. You can also get an Apple infested (to the very core) phone as well.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#362

Post by oliwarner »

SparklingCotton wrote: post #328
oliwarner wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not alleging Apple was passive here, at all I'm saying that when you get a deal this good — however you ended up there — you should not be surprised when it turns out that it was illegal. Of course Apple shopped around. But if somebody offered to sell you $20 bills for half a cent each, would you suspect something dodgy? That's the scale of the issue here.

Apple should be forced to pay back 10x what they gained in this illegal deal. It's bleedingly obvious that it's illegal to be taxed differently than other companies. Paying back €13bn is nothing. Companies that "make deals" on tax anywhere in the world should be effectively banned from the EU market. It's pure evil. Or pay 10x of any gain they have made anywhere in the world by "making deals" on tax, thereby undercut…

Playing states against each other is par for the course in the US. Each state can offer wildly different tax structures and incentives, and they all do, because each wants to be the state government that oversaw "6000 new jobs". They've seen similar issues with the collection of sales tax, when one company can "operate" over many state lines.

But saying "hey, that's obviously corruption" isn't enough. We need a good way to restructure tax collection so that the right people get it.

Multinationals paying Luxembourg (Paypal, eBay) or Ireland (Apple, Amazon) for all revenue and operations from the entire EU is wrong, no? How do you fix that?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#363

Post by rusk »

cwills wrote: post #350
xg15 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

Doesnt make sense, if google didn’t geoblock EU IP addresses how would the EU react? Issue another fine which Google won’t pay? A similar analogy would be like the US blocking their citizens from traveling to North Korea. But then having direct flights from LA to Pyongyang and expecting North Korea to enforce the ban of US citizens at their customs. It’s not their responsibility..

Parent post's point was that Google should block European users in response to European sanctions. Why would the EU prevent her denizens from using Google's services for free?

To twist your analogy this is basically like the US deciding not to give Pynongyang aid any more, in which case yeah they might just decide to block US immigration.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#364

Post by zaarn »

acct1771 wrote: post #302
Tepix wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly about having a 80% market share.

Fine them for the anticompetitive practices, then - not success...

Fining anti-competitive practices only makes sense when it's successful.

The EU laws around this are also worded as such. You can do anti-competitive behavior all you want if you're not a major player because you'll just be shooting yourself in the foot.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#365

Post by calcifer »

izacus wrote: post #331
appleflaxen wrote: post #256

there is a lot of criticism of the EC by the HN community, but I am extremely happy to have some push-back against the oligopoly of Apple, Google, etc. let's do apple, facebook, and amazon next. now if we could only convince comcast to provide services to the EU.... having a small set of companies controlling everything harms all consumers.

This literally strengthens Apple because they'll keep shipping services with integrated features (banning competition) while Android devices will be banned from providing the same integrated experience.

I don't understand why people keep making this argument. It's not about having integrated services. It's about abusing your dominance in one service to force another onto OEMs and consumers.

Apple has no market dominance in the EU, so nothing in this ruling is relevant to them.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#366

Post by tmalsburg2 »

vivan wrote: post #2

Can anyone concisely explain what this fine is for, and also why the same wouldn't apply to Apple for iOS? It seems to be a rehash of the issue that Microsoft faced when it only gave you Internet Explorer on install. But iOS comes with only Safari on install, and forces you to use Apple's various apps - how is this any different?

Relevant statement and partial answer to your question by DuckDuckGo: https://twitter.com/DuckDuckGo/status/1019562507294461953

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#367

Post by sjcsjc »

endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Grammar point. You "flout" a law. You don't "flaunt" it (unless you think it's really good)

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#368

Post by andrepd »

renchap wrote: post #263
menegattig wrote: post #244

IMHO, antitrust fines/penalties should change from amount of money to some other type of penalty, like temporary market exclusion/block or something, otherwise companies like Google and others can simply use its cash (that's was also made due to the unfair advantage), pay the fine and move on to the next market dominance. They will always have cash to pay, even if the fines are higher and higher. They kind of expect…

This is the initial fine. Now they have 90 days to comply, otherwise they will get penalties (up to 5% worldwide turnover of Alphabet) until they do. From the link: > Google must now bring the conduct effectively to an end within 90 days or face penalty payments of up to 5% of the average daily worldwide turnover of Alphabet, Google's parent company.

Is it me, or 5% isn't that much?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#369

Post by rusk »

frockington wrote: post #311
xg15 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

How would it be Googles responsibility? Asking nicely would only get you so far and honestly with GDPR and now this, the EU is becoming more and more of a liability

Yeah - having the state stand up for and protect your right to privacy is such a pain in the ass.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#370

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tomaha wrote: post #45
realusername wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what a monopoly means, yeah you can buy an iPhone but Android has 75% market share in Europe, that's why it's a monopoly.

The problem with this definition is that it also assumes that if you have 75%+ market share you're likely having a similar share of the profits which is not the case here. If you take profit into account it's really at best a 50-50 market for Google.

So if price pressure from consumers forces down your profit then you should be allowed to exploit a monopolistic position to leverage profits in another sector?

Like, own all cinemas in a country but home-viewing keeps profit low, so now it's fine to only allow people to visit your cinemas if they buy clothes from your clothing company?

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