The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written • Hacker News Board

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#361

Post by intended » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

Bekwnn wrote: post #340

27182818284 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> const int CENTRIFUGE_RPM = 1203; As the linked article points out, it wasn't just raising the speed, it was raising it in a subtle enough way to ruin the process while other experts routinely monitored the system

Most importantly it worked very successfully. With Windows, Google search, or most of the others mentioned here, they have had a huge number of problems. The word used was "sophisticated." I think that also implies some level of near-flawlessness in the end result.

It was found, and now everyone is using that code base to iterate on new weapons.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#362

Post by h3cate » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

randall wrote: post #359

Bekwnn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most importantly it worked very successfully. With Windows, Google search, or most of the others mentioned here, they have had a huge number of problems. The word used was "sophisticated." I think that also implies some level of near-flawlessness in the end result.

... except it was discovered and widely publicized.

After it had dismantled a whole countries nuclear weapon program...

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#363

Post by mkagenius » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #332

"most sophisticated software ever written" is a bit of a hyperbole. "most sophisticated computer worm ever discovered" seems more accurate.

Its amazing to see people go crazy about this worm -- I mean how can someone think that that's the "most" sophisticated software. Come on, people.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#364

Post by tajen » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

Splines wrote: post #329

phyller wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the people who know the physical things just write requirements for those farther on down the chain? The threat analysts say, we need to destroy Iran's ability to make nuclear weapons. The nuclear weapons specialists say, the part where we can best do that is by somehow breaking their centrifuges. The centrifuge technician they call up says, "well, x RPMs will really ruin those things. And it would be hard t…

The key part is that you have to bring all of those all together. In hindsight it might be straightforward but if you had a blank slate, how would you approach the problem of "stop Iran from refining Uranium"?

To me the most surprising result would be if it cost fewer than bombing the nuclear facility. At 100k$ each bomb, Stuxnet looks affordable, plus all the expertise and other attack vectors you get from piecing it togethet.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#365

Post by parthdesai » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

baursak wrote: post #170

beager wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are indicative of the public’s enduring lack of technology literacy, and the media’s desire to have facts and eyeballs meet halfway. Media reports Russian election interference via digital ad spend, astroturfing, and infiltration attempts on state voting systems accurately, but the views to that reporting probably pale in comparison to the oversimplified, tweet-size “Russia hacked the 2016 US election” reportin…

> But it’s also worth it to consider whether the lack of awareness/awe over Stuxnet vis a vis Russian election tampering is simply due to technology illiteracy, or whether media is not considering the notability of the means, just the effect of the ends. No, it's because the media is ultimately subservient to power regardless of what they might think of themselves. US attacks on countries designated by power as enemi…

Also, let's not forget Libya. Compare Libya before Benghazi to now.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#366

Post by ddalex » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

randall wrote: post #359

Bekwnn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most importantly it worked very successfully. With Windows, Google search, or most of the others mentioned here, they have had a huge number of problems. The word used was "sophisticated." I think that also implies some level of near-flawlessness in the end result.

... except it was discovered and widely publicized.

7 years after deployment

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#367

Post by parthdesai » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

nunya213 wrote: post #195

ssijak wrote: post #54

And then people make a fuss about Russia "hacking" the election with some dumb Facebook ads which cost less than maxed out Ford Mustang. When on the other hand we have the state-sponsored military grade/purpose viruses used to attack other nations/regions (Flume attacked a large number of targets and countries) and nobody blinks an eye.

Never understood this logic, "We do it so why should we care when other people do it to us." Total insanity.

Nobody is saying not to care. Parent comment is just pointing difference in reaction to a situation ( outside actors trying to screw a country), which is hypocritical.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#368

Post by bluGill » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #224

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time imagining a virtual WMD that is worse than the instant obliteration of millions of people.

In 20 years, a virtual WMD may well instantly obliterate millions of people. I'm already unsure of what the most possible damage someone could do with over-the-air automobile firmware updates is today, just to take one example. What would it be like if someone put out a virus that at 11:32:42am on March 3rd, 2036 causes every GM, Ford, and Tesla self-driving car to lock all the doors, floor the accelerator, and let t…

The problem all virus authors have is escaping detection. 2036 is too far out for them to count on not being detected, and on cars being the same. Release it today, and even if you infect all cars and are undetected, GM and Ford's normal update cycle is likely to change things such that by accident your virus cannot spread. You can expect to get a handful of cars to accelerate out of control - and odds are the door locks don't work on them so you failed to lock the door.

Infecting a cars is hard for other reasons. Radios tend to be easy to updated (they can sell you new features - maps if nothing else). All other controllers tend to be more locked down such that it is likely that a virus couldn't actually spread to anything that can take control.

Maybe, who knows who GM will change over the next 20 years. GM only has guesses.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#369

Post by tomatotomato37 » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

nathanm412 wrote: post #67

vbsteven wrote: post #39

The scary thing about this is: Stuxnet is one of the "most sophisticated" pieces of malware we have discovered up until now . Who knows what kinds of software are still out there quietly doing their thing in the shadows.

We're quickly heading toward the age of the first Virtual WMD. The implications can be as wide as your imagination, but possibly worse than existing WMDs.

Eh, I'm not so sure. One of the biggest appeals of our current WMDs is they can take out the enemy's WMDs in addition to infrastructure. An attack that paralyzes an entire nation's computer network and sends self-driving cars crashing into substations doesn't mean anything to the group of guys in a bunker/submarine with the keys to the 50 year rocket powered by vaccum tubes

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#370

Post by bluGill » Fri, May 18, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

Certhas wrote: post #349

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that doesn't require refrigeration would still work though, trucks run on diesel after all. Which makes me concerned about the future; if the transport network becomes electric, a power outage will cripple things even more. Unless we build self-contained, internet-disconnected charging stations maybe, but that's not going to be done at any kind of significant scale.

Just a guess, but: Gas stations use pumps that run on electricity.

They are still pumps: a physical system. Give me a couple hours and I can get gasoline out of any gas station without needing electricity. Of course I will destroy large parts of the machine in the process. I'll get my gas, and so will anyone else while that turns the crank. The pump will need to be replaced to use normally afterwards.

The bigger worry is gasoline in tanks is good for at most a month. The refinery is much harder to start/operate without power. They have their own backup power on site (I assume) so this might or might not be a real worry. If it is I'll just brew some ethanol.