Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#361

Post by tremon » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #97

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not news. (2010)[ http://www.zdnet.com/article/fbi-feds-collect-facebook-socia... ] (2010)[ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/418971/facebook-personal-... ] (2012)[ http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/05/opinion/sunday/facebook-is... ] (2011)[ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne... ] (2011)[ https://techcrunch.com/2011/11/01/researchers-flood-facebook... ] (2012)[money.cnn.com/2012/03/22/…

There can be no consent for the usage of your data, as it is impossible to grasp in what ways the data will be used exactly, what deep learning algorithms will learn from it and what impact it will have on your life and society as a whole.

Good. Under GDPR, if there can be no consent, there can be no data.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#362

Post by tallon » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

relyio wrote: post #36

freyir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so the quote [2004] isn't out of context: Zuckerberg: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS [Friend]: What? How'd you manage that one? Zuckerberg: People just submitted it. Zuckerberg: I don't know why. Zuckerberg: They "trust me" Zuckerberg: Dumb fucks

I'm sure you can do a better job at illustrating your point than ressucitating a +10y old quote from Zuck, 19 at the time. Teenagers and college students say a lot of condescending, dumb, immature stuff in group discussions. It's not news and no evidence at all.

Oh please. Aaron Schwartz never said anything like that at his age. Mark Zuckerberg is not a baby, not even at 19.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#363

Post by jhayward » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

malikNF wrote: post #3

What's utterly horrifying about this whole thing is how the media is acting as if this is some sort of surprise. Like what did you think was happening at a company collecting data about billions of people? Especially at a company that has a CEO who is famous for calling its own users dumb fu * * s? A company that experimented on at risk teens. Like come on. --edit--- Or lordy, didn't expect this comment to blow up th…

I can't disagree enough with a "blame the user" attitude.

First, it absolves the perpetrators, who are definitely in the wrong. I include both FB and CA in this category.

Second, it is becoming clear that there can be no such thing as "informed consent" in a networked world with respect to data privacy. Zeynep Tufekci, whose writings I heartily commend, had a good article on it a few weeks back.[1] She argues both that the actual uses known of that data are not fully described in consent waivers, and also that it is not possible to know ahead of time how that data will be combined, recombined, projected, analysed, and used in the future to fully consent to all those things. Even if you could do so for yourself as an individual it's not possible to consent to the effects of the combination of an entire society's data as a whole, on others.

Again, it's not possible to obtain informed consent in today's privacy environment, so let's stop blaming the victims.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/30/opinion/strava-privacy.ht...

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#364

Post by kazen44 » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

sveme wrote: post #266

camillomiller wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will offer a possibile solution in Europe, where Facebook has already been under heavy scrutiny. It won't change anything in the US, South America, SE Asia and developing countries where Facebook is already dangerously synonimical to the whole online experience of the average user.

The hope is that Facebook will not have two different data handling strategies for EU and non-EU users and we'll see some sort of regulatory encroachment from the EU to the rest of the world. But obviously GDPR endangers so many of Facebook's shady but lucrative practices that they will have financial incentives to set up two different user silos.

I wonder if other countries also start making laws like the GDPR? The EU is creating a frameworks which makes it very easy for other countries to "attach" on too. The only danger is not having enough leverage to "prevent" companies from leaving and not adhering to privacy standards, but by cooperating this should be possible?

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#365

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #146

na85 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I up voted because your point is relevant. However, Software development is not a Profession, in the proper use of the term. It is not self-regulating the way Medicine, Engineering, Law, and a few others are. There is no formal standard of ethical conduct in software for practitioners to use as a baseline for their own behaviour.

Ahem: http://ethics.acm.org/code-of-ethics/software-engineering-co... >1.03. Approve software only if they have a well-founded belief that it is safe, meets specifications, passes appropriate tests, and does not diminish quality of life, diminish privacy or harm the environment. The ultimate effect of the work should be to the public good. edit: this version is from 1992 . And I should point out my courses at least h…

Yeah and how many people adhere to this? Anyone can call themselves a software engineer, and many do despite never having been near an ethics course. Calling for mandatory ethics modules as part of a CS course has been an unpopular opinion here for years :-l

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#366

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #354

na85 wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Nothing is done and the code of ethics is not enforced. Let's say I'm a structural engineer or a lawyer and I act legally but unethically: I can be censured by my professional association/college, because law and engineering are professions and thus are self-regulating. Can the same be said of software development? Certainly not. The cult of the amateur, self-taught basement coder and the entirety of startup…

Professional ethics aside, how about plain old personal ethics? Do programmers have a higher incidence of unethical behavior in general than the rest of the population? I agree with you that it seems like there could be a more rigorous professional standard for enforcing ethics in coding/CS, but I like playing devil's advocate.

No idea, but a lot of developers and other tech people suffer from hubris, believing that since their cognitive skills make them effective programmers, they are in turn equally insightful in other domains because all thought depends on logic.

The problem is that it's very easy (and socially acceptable, even desirable) to build elaborate towers of logic on an unexamined premise.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#367

Post by jjulius » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

mannykannot wrote: post #59

All the self-serving memes are out on parade here: "This not news", "what did you expect?", "anyone paying attention should have known", "it is the new normal", "it could not be any other way", "everyone benefits"... Actually, as of posting, the "Apple/Google/Microsoft are just as bad" version has not yet put in an appearance.

Yeah, it makes me think of how people often say that SV is disconnected from the rest of society.

Sure, those of us on HN know to expect this from data-mining companies, but spend an extended amount of time with people who don't work in tech and you'll quickly learn that, yes, they know that FB uses your data, but most people have almost zero idea around just how much of your data is captured and sold/harvested/whatnot, nor what is done with the data after that point.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#368

Post by Chaebixi » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

sveme wrote: post #266

camillomiller wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will offer a possibile solution in Europe, where Facebook has already been under heavy scrutiny. It won't change anything in the US, South America, SE Asia and developing countries where Facebook is already dangerously synonimical to the whole online experience of the average user.

The hope is that Facebook will not have two different data handling strategies for EU and non-EU users and we'll see some sort of regulatory encroachment from the EU to the rest of the world. But obviously GDPR endangers so many of Facebook's shady but lucrative practices that they will have financial incentives to set up two different user silos.

> The hope is that Facebook will not have two different data handling strategies for EU and non-EU users and we'll see some sort of regulatory encroachment from the EU to the rest of the world. But obviously GDPR endangers so many of Facebook's shady but lucrative practices that they will have financial incentives to set up two different user silos.

Facebook might be one of the few organizations with the motivation and ability to set up two different regimes to contain the effects of GDPR on their practices.

In that case, I would love to know what their selection criteria is.

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#369

Post by Chaebixi » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

jypepin wrote: post #52

I've been thinking more and more recently of deleting my facebook profile. 1. I barely add stuff on it 2. 99% of my news feed is irrelevant and I really don't care (there maybe 1 post/day from a friend that is interesting to me) 3. Starting to be more and more concerned about all this data But I'm scared for multiple reasons: 1. connections needed from a lot of friends, family etc. that I would not keep contact with…

> I've been thinking more and more recently of deleting my facebook profile.

> But I'm scared for multiple reasons:

I went through that a similar thought process. I decided to keep my profile active, but unlike everything and delete all my posts. I also changed my profile pic to make it clear I wouldn't be using Facebook anymore. That way I can still get event invites, etc. but not be too burdened by the whole thing.

Eventually I'll delete my profile, but not until Facebook becomes far less ubiquitous (and I do what small things I can to hasten its decline).

Re: Ex-Facebook insider says covert data harvesting was routine

#370

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

aylmao wrote: post #338

synchronist wrote: post #31

I made a Facebook web scraper which opens 20 headless browsers. You provide a list of unlimited usernames & proxies (you can buy them at https://buyaccs.com/en/ ). It will scrape every ounce of public information available. I acquired a few million users worth. The data is too easy to get.

Which kinda throws me off. It's no secret Facebook, Twitter, your phone (if you give permission to a 3rd party app) etc, are all harvestable. All CA is in regards to a story that broke a couple months ago. Why is it catching fire now?

Something something Trump