Live data from Hacker News

FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

washingtonpost.com

361–370 of 674 posts

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#361
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And our mistake here is not finding a way to explain it that doesn't require reading a book.

John Oliver found a good way to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vuuZt7wak The problem is that ISP shills that make these decisions don't care about public opposition. They aren't elected officials.

> The problem is that ISP shills that make these decisions don't care about public opposition

But they do care most about making money from the public and no one has convinced me that filtering internet packages by website makes any technical, marketing, or business model sense at all.

This has proven to be incredibly unpopular idea with the public for over a decade as well, whenever it has come up in the press. It wouldn't take much market research to see it's a terrible idea.

Plus the huge technical challenge of filtering at the ISP level... this would be a huge boon for encryption and VPNs as well.

No American ISP for the ~20yr timeframe before the FTC regulation was passed a few years ago had ever offered such an arrangement. Not to mention no ISP in any other country has offered anything close to that either. Plenty of American ISPs have said they have zero intention of doing it either.

This would be a boon to any ISP who DIDN'T do this. Competition, the technical hurdles, and obvious lack of business sense, etc has always been an adequate counter-balance to this idea.

So I'm a bit confused why this is generating so much FUD over such a highly hypothetical and hand wavy scenario... as if the only thing stopping them from doing it was this three year old FTC regulation.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#362

The worst part of this is that the major ISPs are also cable companies, and every cable company is anti cord-cutting. With this, they can now shape your bandwidth to degrade netflix and hulu and slingbox to the point that cord cutting is impossible.

Or more likely they charge Netflix, Hulu etc exorbitant rates to peer with them or even carry their traffic.

This means Netflix has less money for content investment which helps their competition i.e. the same ISPs.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25mbps is an arbitrary limit that leaves out ATT and Century links ADSL2+ service, which is fine for most uses.

You will have a hard time streaming Netflix/Hulu/VOD on anything < 25mbps.

Should get you to 720p.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#364

Tweet in article: >On December 14, the FCC will vote on Chairman Pai's plan to repeal President Obama's heavy-handed Internet regulations and restore Internet freedom. I love how these laws are veiled with patriotic sentiments, e.g. "Internet Freedom". Just like the "Patriot Act", it is reasonable to assume anything with these sort of labels will likely be an encroachment on your freedoms. Also >"The job of the FCC i…

I read Wheeler's statement as sarcasm. He said the decision was "tragic" right before that line. It seems like he is implying that nobody likes cable companies, and now they're going to hate the similarities in internet service providers if this bill passes. Wheeler, despite being a former industry man, definitely pushed for the consumer agenda despite industry pressure.

It's not sarcasm, it's an honest conditional statement.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#365

I feel so helpless as a Canadian. Is there anything I can do to help? As a web developer, this type of thing scares me to no end. We run a few SAAS products, have a site that makes pretty decent ad revenue, and host sites for customers. A large number of the website visitors for all services are from the USA. If that traffic disappears... Is there anything meaningful a non-american can do to help?

They will probably water it down to fast-lane/slow-lane where SaaS providers -- ie: you -- have the option to buy into the fast-lane.

As for affecting policy, that is a more interesting challenge.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#366
Wow. If my cable company (who I use only for internet access) decides to change pricing and it ends up costing me more to watch netflix (this includes if netflix increases its prices due to the cable company pushing back and charging netflix) then I will cancel both. I'll save more money and be free from the internet at home. I suppose that really is truly "Internet Freedom"!

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#367

Tweet in article: >On December 14, the FCC will vote on Chairman Pai's plan to repeal President Obama's heavy-handed Internet regulations and restore Internet freedom. I love how these laws are veiled with patriotic sentiments, e.g. "Internet Freedom". Just like the "Patriot Act", it is reasonable to assume anything with these sort of labels will likely be an encroachment on your freedoms. Also >"The job of the FCC i…

I read Wheeler's statement as sarcasm. He said the decision was "tragic" right before that line. It seems like he is implying that nobody likes cable companies, and now they're going to hate the similarities in internet service providers if this bill passes. Wheeler, despite being a former industry man, definitely pushed for the consumer agenda despite industry pressure.

Wheeler did end up helping consumers, but not from the start. His first year or two in office he was against net neutrality and very supportive of telecom/cable companies - although nowhere near as bad as Pai. It wasn't until Obama's Administration whipped him in line that he actually started championing pro-consumer policies.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#368

For those who don't understand why net neutrality is important, it is worthwhile to read about the history of communications (telephone, radio, TV). There is an excellent book by Tim Wu called The Master Switch [0] which investigates the history of communications (with an American focus), describes how each industry start out open to all (farmers using fences for telephone, independent radio broadcasters), and each o…

This Net Neutrality issue sounds similar to the issue America faced in the late 1800s with the railroads.

Some shippers (Standard Oil) wanted to monopolize the rails or at least they wanted rebates for shipping their freight. Others argued that the rails should offer the same rates to all shippers since they were using eminent domain in some cases to obtain property and they should exist as a shared resource.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#369
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you won't see it. they will force netflix to pay them more. And the charge will be passed on to all subscribers.

That's fine. Then I can decide if I want to pay that price for Netflix or not. I also have Amazon Prime video, and Youtube, and etc. so I have several competing choices.

Then you don't get Netflix, Prime, etc, because AT&T marked up the price, or you do get it, but you get less of something else because AT&T is extorting you.

Would you be "fine" if someone stood in front of your house and intercepted all your Amazon packages and added a $5 delivery fee to each?

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#370
post #366

Wow. If my cable company (who I use only for internet access) decides to change pricing and it ends up costing me more to watch netflix (this includes if netflix increases its prices due to the cable company pushing back and charging netflix) then I will cancel both. I'll save more money and be free from the internet at home. I suppose that really is truly "Internet Freedom"!

i'd be annoyed if i had to pay more for specific things, but i'll be livid if they can accomplish a form of censorship with the same
Post reply on HN