Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

mcmansionhell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 388 posts

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#361

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

strictnein wrote: post #235
stickfigure wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, Redfin's data is actually current. I'm trying to buy property. Back when I was using Zillow, I missed out on a couple because literally the day I found out about them was the closing day of offers. WTF? Redfin updates much faster. I still get emails from Zillow, often with listing changes that Redfin emailed me several weeks prior. Oh, and don't get me started on Zillow's incredibly shitty data. The…

This will vary by state, but in MN a realtor can setup an email notification that will send you a message as soon as a property matching your criteria is listed. So I get the Redfin notifications, but I've typically already known about the property for 6-12 hours.

I think this system is somewhat ubiquitous, using the database(s) colloquially known as MLS databases. The original idea was helpful in the pre-internet age because it encouraged fee sharing between realtors ("You help me sell my houses, and I will help you sell yours"). But in today's information age, it has unfortunately become a bit of a protectionist racket as the need for realtors to help you find houses diminishes, because to get access to the data and set it up for consumers you have to (in Texas at least) be a licensed real estate agent. You cannot simply pay a fee to access the listings.

National Association of Realtors (NAR) who handles the MLS listings under a system known as Internet Data Exchange (IDX) was actually involved in a lawsuit from the DOJ several years ago about their protectionist policies. They were preventing online-only brokers such as Redfin from sharing MLS listings in favor of traditional brick and mortar brokerages.

It will be quite interesting to see how the field of real estate evolves. I'd like to see it shift more toward the Redfin model, where the consumer has the power to look at whatever houses they want and the realtor is simply there to act as a fiduciary and facilitate the transaction between buyer and seller. It certainly seems to help avoid conflicts of interest in that case.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#362

Post by pyre »

cookiecaper wrote: post #306
pyre wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Justice Dept. tested that theory (violation of ToS is a violation of the CFAA) in court, but it didn't fly. The judge correctly pointed out that this basically gives companies carte blanche to make something a Federal crime via their Terms of Service.

Which case are you referring to? weev was convicted and sent to prison for violating the CFAA, based on his "unauthorized access" to AT&T's site (the limits of which are presumably defined by the ToS). His conviction was reversed on the technicality of improper venue, not the dubious nature of the conviction or the belief that ToS should not be eval'd into federal law.

I'm referring to the case where that woman posed as a high school student and drove a girl that her daughter didn't like to suicide via cyber bullying. They tried to charge her under the CFAA for violating Facebook's ToS against misrepresenting yourself.

Edit: It was MySpace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Drew

> United States v. Drew[1] is the final decision in a criminal case that charged Lori Drew of violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) over the alleged cyberbullying of a 13-year-old, Megan Meier, who committed suicide.

Also:

> On September 4, 2008, the Electronic Frontier Foundation filed an amicus brief in support of Drew's motion to dismiss the indictment.[10] The brief argued that Drew's indictment was wrongful because Drew's alleged violation of the Myspace terms and conditions was not an "unauthorized access" or a use that "exceeds authorized access" under the CFAA statute; that applying the CFAA to Drew's conduct would constitute a serious encroachment of civil liberties; and that interpreting the CFAA to apply to a breach of a website's Terms of Service would violate the Due Process protections of the Constitution and thereby render the statute void on the grounds of vagueness and lack of fair notice.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#363

Post by magic_beans »

taway_1212 wrote: post #346
tvanantwerp wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm living in NoVa in a zip code in the top 2% of wealth in the US. (Sadly, I'm not personally in the top 2%, I just rent an apartment here.) There are McMansions all around, and they are hideous. There's no sense of design or symmetry. And this is no aspirational neighborhood--if you're buying one of these houses, you are already at the top of society. As much as I hate looking at these McMansions, they do give me o…

> As much as I hate looking at these McMansions, they do give me one consolation: money can't buy taste. Maybe I'll never afford that monstrosity you call a house, but at least I've got the sense to not want it in the first place. My theory is that people who can afford such houses are usually very busy with their jobs or companies and don't have the time or mindspace to think about what kind of place they'd really l…

You're assuming these people are engineers... Some people are just plain tacky.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#364

Post by mrep »

ericd wrote: post #329
mrep wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that still comes down to personal subjective taste and she thinks hers is better than the people who bought/designed the home.

Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to criticize anything because it's all subjective and down to personal taste?

No, but I don't like it when people do in a very public manner as a way to pressure people to conform.

How would you feel about a blog that openly criticizes workplace clothing (I bring this up as lots of people in my office wear things like toe shoes and some males even where quilts)?

I try and be accepting of other people's personal tastes and don't want to enforce through rules/laws/social pressure some common clothing standard that people have to conform to. Same goes for houses in that I don't like publicly mocking them for how they look in order to socially pressure people to build their houses so that they conform to some standard.

*edit: obviously this shouldn't be taken to the extreme as houses do emit externalities on those that surround them which can decrease the value of the surrounding houses. Thus, I think some conformity in a town by town basis is good. However, I find blogs like this and some home owners associations (HOA) to be ridiculous with how far they try and enforce their rules and opinions on how homes/town should look.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#365

Post by magic_beans »

InspiredIdiot wrote: post #238
chadgeidel wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question. I'm not well-versed enough in design theory to answer, but I'll offer my opinion anyway. :-) The fins on a 1959 Cadillac are well-integrated (design-wise) on the car. It's a theme of the era and the car was designed from the ground up to look like a jet or a rocket. The design elements in a McMansion are not well integrated (see the posts on the site) - they are added on as an afterthought becau…

It doesn't appear that Antoni Gaudí had anything to do with the etymology of the term "gaudy" as it was in use hundreds of years before he was born. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaudy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaudy I couldn't help looking it up because the idea that a single artist could stand out so much to be singularly associated with that term was tempting. I expect that is why such a false as…

Gaudí may not have been the origin of the word "gaudy", but perhaps he was an example of nominative determinism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism

;)

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#366

Post by nasalgoat »

mrep wrote: post #255
chiph wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be pretentious to just arbitrarily say "Those houses are ugly". But she says "Those houses are ugly, and this is why ". While I don't agree with her opinion on all the houses she features, but the vast majority -- yeah, they're pretty bad, and for the reasons she states. * Odd proportions and asymmetry. * Strange roof lines (the "nub" - it's like a Mansard that didn't know when to stop). * Bizarre bump-outs, bec…

But that still comes down to personal subjective taste and she thinks hers is better than the people who bought/designed the home.

There are design rules for a reason. They're not just arbitrary things that someone just made up out of nothing - the human brain has preferences for visual stimulus so things like the "rule of thirds" are based on how people prefer to see things.

So yes, her opinion has more value because it's backed up by proven design rules. It's not as subjective as you're implying.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#367

Post by dgacmu »

dagw wrote: post #354
blhack wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has a feeling of "someone stuck on this extra part here, this stairwell here, ..." Isn't that practically one of the defining characteristics of Frank Lloyd Wright's houses?

I wouldn't really say so: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3a/44/84/3a4484bdb... http://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/56cb8425cd3bcb32... http://historylists.org/images/nathan-g-moore-house.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7024761/El... https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7025319/Pe... http://midcenturyhome.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Frank-L...

Concur. The FLW houses I've seen have all been quite consistent. I like Kentuck Knob as an example more than Fallingwater, because it doesn't have the super-obvious "cantilevered over the water" thing as a focus point, so you have to look at the whole a little more:

http://kentuckknob.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Kentuck_Sp...

Consistent roofline, consistently repeated window motif, re-use of the horizontal stonework for the house, the exterior wall, and the chimneys.

The drawback of his Usonian houses is that the ceiling height is ridiculous by 2017 standards. At 6'3", I have to duck in several of the rooms, much less the doorways. Oof.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#368

Post by throwaway055 »

bchalala wrote: post #347
throwaway055 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely rampant classism going on here, but not in the direction you seem to think. Her blog has an extremely mean-spirited tone, she's downright attacking people. Her audience is accepting of that because it's directed at people who own large houses, and people who own large houses have money and are successful. In her world, it's acceptable to treat people poorly, as long as they're successful and have m…

The very nature of the houses in question are built for the sole purpose of showing some sort of opulence to the viewer. The people who buy these kind of houses look at that sort of opulence and say "yep it's got all that opulence I want" and they buy it. Now that same exact person could potentially buy something with taste, or potentially even design a house. It's not like these people are forced into having a stupi…

> The blog isn't about tearing down wealthy people, it's about tearing down shitty architecture. She showcases really great architecture as well that obviously isn't affordable.

It's about tearing down shitty architecture, in a way that directly criticizes the owner's purchase and taste while making endless derogatory assumptions and claims about them, and that's only ok because that owner has money.

She, for example, thinks it's sexist for a bathroom to have two sinks, and a bathroom having two sinks is an appeal to the owner's sexism. You can take this person seriously if you want to, but to act like there's no malice here is a little absurd, and it's clear (at least to me) that that malice is only accepted because it's directed at the wealthy.

And it's totally unwarranted, she doesn't know these people and she doesn't know their political affiliations or their positions on social issues. They're just people who like a house you don't like. I don't see how that's a justification to draw insults on pictures of their house and post it on the internet.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#369

Post by pascalxus »

This site seems like Class elitism and smells of Class warfare. It seems quite bitter too.

A few of her architectural points are correct: a missing column here or there, perhaps some matching windows. But, most of her commentary is reaching and snarky. She might have fared much better if she put a positive spin on it and told people how to improve there architecture rather than picking apart every minor flaw, to which otherwise would be a great mcMansion.

I found most of the houses and pictures shown on there quite good looking. I would be really lucky to live in anything posted on there. I don't think she's seen bad looking architecture yet. Obviously, she's never looked at housing in CA.

And criticizing a house for having too small a lot - that's just really low. That's like criticizing a poor kid for not having any money. People don't get to chose the cost of land in their area. It's decided upon by voters and government. If she has a problem with lot sizes, she ought to blame voters not the house.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#370

Post by yazan94 »

Houshalter wrote: post #311
allworknoplay wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I was the only bothered by that blog (the 99pi episode was based on it). I agree with practically all of its conclusions (ugly, oversized, out of place, generic, etc.), but the entire thing was a bunch of worthless value judgements: this is bad, that is bad. Not: this is bad because of function, but literally "this should never happen" -- no explanation. Real example from way back machine, from the blog's m…

I made the same complaints when this blog was first posted on HN. All of their rules are entirely arbitrary and subjective opinions. They give very little argument or reasoning to support them. The best they have is side by side comparisons. Where they say "Isn't the one on the left so much better?" And on all of them I completely disagree and think the McMansion actually looks better. I just don't like the "simple,…

Do you have any places to learn about less traditional design and architecture?
Post reply on HN