Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system • Hacker News Board

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#361

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:04 AM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #292

pjmlp wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand by my remark, as I don't have a way to confirm what security updates Google bothers to release at all to "outdated" devices.

Of course there's a way to confirm what security updates Google releases. You just have to go to the Android Security Bulletin site [1]. You know this, but it would conflict with your agenda of spreading Google/Android FUD because of your perpetual grievances with Google surrounding the Google/Oracle trial. [1] https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/

Where does it state which devices got which patch level?

Just because a fix is available today doesn't mean an old Nexus will get it.

As for agenda, as a consumer and developer, I want a device where I am able to use the same Java libraries as on a regular Java and get updates as on any of my computers without having to pay more than a month salary for such time limited privilege.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#362

Post by Nomentatus » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:10 AM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #125

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This excuse completely ignores the fact that through the MADA contract, Google controls all of the manufacturers and defines whether or not they are allowed to sell Android phones, effectively. And that the OS is designed, by Google, to require the manufacturer to distribute the update, rather than, as with... pretty much all other OSes, the software developer being responsible for updating their own software. Google…

Google does not control whether OEM's are allowed to sell Android phones. Does Google control the sale of all of those Chinese branded phones that don't ship with Google Play Services? Or how about the Blackphone or the Copperhead phone? The MADA simply states what is required if your phone wants to ship with Google Play Services and Apps. >Google would like you to blame the manufacturer, but you need to realize the…

There's a confusion here between the Android's clone of the GNU libraries (to escape the GPL3 license) which is open source, plus the linux kernel, also open source; and the NOT open source Google Android OS which is much more than this, including a Java engine and a helluva lot of other parts including but not limited to the app store. China's Android-ish phones use the replacement library functions Google built and the Linux kernel. The Chinese could go all GPL3 and ignore any Google/Android contribution at all if they cared to - they don't because they too want to get away from the GPL3 license (with it's software and hardware patent grab and anti-tivoization clause that forbids locking down the phone, even for security purposes.)

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#363

Post by syrrim » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:14 AM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #248

ezoe wrote: post #220

When I was a kid, I was frustrated for most of the adults can't use the computer so our society is very inefficient at daily life. I was thinking, since our generation has affordable personal computers, when our generation become adults, the world will finally embrace the efficiency of computer where everything is computer-friendly and everyone can write code. I was wrong. The birth of so called "smartphone" made eve…

Writing code, outside of spaghetti BASIC and similar, is a full time job. It requires hours and hours of thinking and planning. People already have full time jobs, sometimes two or more. The last thing they want is another, likely unpaid one, when they come home and sit down before the computer.

Coding is only difficult because we have made it difficult. It should be possible for a user who is not overly familiar with programming to open up the source, find the part they want to change, change it, and rebuild the changed software. Instead, we have been making all our software as complicated to understand and edit as possible, and then only shipping binaries in order to hide the complexity.

The advice of my window manager, i3, regarding source installs is: don't. Disregarding that advice, and after fighting with my package manager to get the required libs, `make` made it extremely easy to build. From there, the edit I wanted to perform required changing the value of a constant from 3 to 0. Not hours and hours at all.

Making this feasible for everyday users is within reach. If the focus of the free software movement had been on making software that users can modify on a physical and practical level, rather than just a legal and technical level, we might see everyday users patching their software. That didn't happen, and it doesn't seem many people care about making it happen, and so the situation won't change.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#364

Post by bribri » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:24 AM UTC

Is now a good time to get into android development?

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#365

Post by mihular » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:28 AM UTC

sigmar wrote: post #337

mattl wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's fault is it? Why doesn't Google allow it to be installed on all devices?

>Who's fault is it? Chinese Government. >Why doesn't Google allow it to be installed on all devices? You can install it on devices (with varying difficulty depending on if you can unlock bootloader). It just doesn't come pre-installed on any device sold within China.

While you certainly can, it isn't legal to do so. Plus it might not work very well.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#366

Post by pathsjs » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:59 AM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #121

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a shocking difference here. Windows install is, for all compatible devices: 1. Insert install disc/USB. 2. Boot to install disc. 3. Spam the next button. Installing new Android OS versions manually often involves custom third party unlock tools from sketchy download sites.

And yet, if you ask a non-technical user to install a new OS, it's entirely likely they'll refuse, be uncomfortable with the implications of what they're doing, and if you do force them to do it, will be frustrated with the result. I worked in a Computer Repair shop for years through college and believe me, the average user has ZERO interest in installing or re-installing an OS. They will pay >$100 to have someone "s…

The point is that many technical users do not install custom versions of Android, though. We all agree on non technical users, but changing Android version is still more complex, to the point that many people comfortable with upgrading a desktop will not mess with their phone

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#367

Post by flukus » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 6:08 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #360

chickenbane wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the report is not say what the update situation is across Android devices, Google has a monthly dashboard for that: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html If you're interested in the Android update situation, Adrian Ludwig just gave a talk at Next, the Google cloud conference about it (he even references the Wikileaks CIA breach): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm6ziX5pqt8 He talks…

The fact that the report doesn't even mention that there people like me that don't deserve updates, just because we aren't willing to pay over 500 € is what triggered me off. The dasboard tracks versions in the wild, not the amount of users that were blessed with an update. The report is presented in such a way, as if during 2016 the OEMs had a change of heart and now all provide updates.

Be careful what you wish for, my middle tier Motorola phone got an update a couple of weeks ago and has been crashing several times daily ever since. I'm not convinced their patching schedule is enough to make a real difference anyway.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#368

Post by emmab » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 6:20 AM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #322

oefrha wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citing Google's blog post for Android security is not very convincing. If Android is so secure, why are we seeing (often more frequently than) weekly headlines on Android security woes, often containing something like "millions of devices affected" (and often enough, no fix in sight)? Also, quote from linked blog post: > only 0.05 percent of devices that downloaded apps exclusively from Play contained a PHA. 1. What…

>Citing Google's blog post for Android security is not very convincing. So instead of believing metrics gathered from Google's SafetyNet telemetry from 1.4 billion devices you would rather believe scaremongering blog posts that have no concrete data to back up their claims? >If Android is so secure, why are we seeing (often more frequently than) weekly headlines on Android security woes, often containing something li…

> Just because an exploit is discovered doesn't really mean it's being exploited in the wild.

This becomes less and less true every year.

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#369

Post by psy-q » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 6:23 AM UTC

CaptSpify wrote: post #351

mattnewton wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does location services need to phone home? Or the App Store? Or push notifications? I think most of these are obvious. I am not aware of any non-obvious ones, but if so they are more likely for crash reporting or usage metrics than for advertising.

Obviously some of them need to phone home, I'm talking about the ones that don't need to. And, just because it can't phone home doesn't mean it should stop working altogether.

Yes, and you have to swallow the whole blob as soon as you need any single one of the services. Just want "cloud" messaging for your app? Force anyone who uses your app to install the whole blob. Want just assisted GPS? Too bad, you still force anyone who uses your app to install the whole blob.

If Google had made the services modular, it would probably be easier to replace them with homegrown ones, but they made it a blob because that gives them more power. There are efforts to replace this blob with other manufacturers' blobs (like the one Yandex is working on, or microG) but it looks like this is not easy and it's not going quickly.

We also probably get a typical reverse-engineering situation where Google's services will always be several steps ahead of anything anyone else can offer as a drop-in replacement, so the alternative looks less and less enticing to the average consumer and they'll probably go with the blob :(

Re: Android overtakes Windows as the internet’s most used operating system

#370

Post by bostand » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 6:27 AM UTC

xorblurb wrote: post #341

bitmapbrother wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where is your proof that Stagefright is actively being exploited? All you did was point to a scaremongering blog post with no data. According to Adrian Ludwig, Android security director, not 1 Stagefright exploit has ever been seen in the wild according to the telemetry they receive from SafetyNet and the 1.4 billion devices it's installed on.

Would a successful targeted exploit be detected?

Yes.

Source: ask any female hollywood celebrity.