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Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

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Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#361

Post by ac29 »

dom0 wrote: post #226
pavel_lishin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't we already have GSM and LTE, and who knows what else? And I'm not aware of any legislation for the use of those over others. As far as I know, as long as I have the right to use the frequencies, I could start my own cellular telco that transmits whatever format I want.

> As far as I know, as long as I have the right to use the frequencies, I could start my own cellular telco that transmits whatever format I want. Point I ("I have the right to use the frequencies") directly depends on point II ("whatever format I want"). When applying for using a certain frequency band, you have to specify usage and purpose, and you can't just change your mind, i.e. you can't apply for GSM frequenci…

>When applying for using a certain frequency band, you have to specify usage and purpose, and you can't just change your mind, i.e. you can't apply for GSM frequencies and say you will be running a GSM network, but then run the PavelLishinOverAir protocol.

While this is mostly true, in practice (at least on the 450-470 MHz band I work with), you can give fairly vague purposes, like "telemetry" or "SCADA", and it doesn't matter what vendor or what protocol you use. In fact, there is no section of the licence that says "I am going to use protocol X on equipment Y manufactured by vendor Z" or any part thereof (emissions designators are a different story).

I don't have any experience will cellular licences, though. Given that carriers frequently repurpose spectrum as technology changes, I can't imagine their licences say "GSM only" or anything like that. The band that used to be 3G GSM is being used for 4G LTE on my phone right now.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#362

Post by delecti »

netsharc wrote: post #132
ungzd wrote: post #52

This blog post mentions following messenger technologies (Google has even more not mentioned here): - Google Talk - Hangouts Meet - Hangouts Chat - Android Messages (something new, never heard of it) (And non-google messenger technologies: SMS, RCS). How user is supposed to navigate all these? Given that all these things are inferior to even Facebook and is ICQ-grade.

But Facebook Messenger now wants to eat Snapchat's lunch and is offering Snapchat functionality. Great, that annoying cat lady who I'm "friends" with now can spam my Messenger app with pics of her cat. And I shared a picture with a friend and Messenger suggested I posted it to it's NotSnapChat. It's a single button inside the chat bubble, which makes me wonder if the publishing happens directly when I push that butto…

I downloaded Facebook Messenger Lite and highly recommend it. It strips out everything except... well... Facebook Messenger. I can message people, and there's none of the extra UI crap, including their Facebook branded Snapchat copy (not to be confused with their Instagram or Whatsapp branded Snapchat copies).

Officially it's only supported in emerging markets, but you can download it from apkmirror and it'll install just fine.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#363

Post by kuschku »

kuschku wrote: post #98
throwaway6556 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop spreading FUD. I've been running my own email server for a year without delivery issues to Gmail or Outlook/Office 365. Just make sure your VPS IP is not blacklisted, and play the DKIM/etc game. You'll be fine.

It’s not that easy. I’ve had proper DKIM, proper SPF, my IP wasn’t blacklisted anywhere. But I still ended up in Spam. So I had to send for about a year emails to friends every few days, replicating our discussions on WhatsApp etc (so they’d have organic content), and I’d ask them to mark them as "not spam". Now I end up in their normal Inbox. EDIT: Why the downvotes? Please comment instead what you think is wrong –…

UPDATE: In case someone ever wants to know more details about why my server failed verification, here are checks for that domain I took when changing DKIM keys last (today):

http://i.imgur.com/9zqILRk.png

https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3akusc...

http://i.imgur.com/VIH4jlt.png

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#364

Post by xnx »

Like many, I'm supremely confused about this history and current state of Google's various chat systems.

Does anyone know of a comprehensive timeline of all the various permutations? I would read it just to boggle at how many poor decisions could be made by a single company in a single category.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#365

Post by nickpsecurity »

icebraining wrote: post #287
nickpsecurity wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And the result is OOXML" The result of open-sourcing all data formats and protocols would obviously be all the data formats and protocols released as open-source. OOXML is not the only one in existence.

My point is that companies forced to do this would create abstruse formats, and then even misimplement them, to thwart those trying to interoperate.

Oh yeah. They'll probably try that. That will either be defeated with tons of sweat as it largely was in products like OpenOffice or the legal recommendation modified to attempt to deal with it. It might also be handled in the courts if the law includes language that specifically instructs to attempt simple, readable protocols to "facilitate interoperability." Obfuscations could be argued as the opposite of that in court.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#367

Post by iMerNibor »

roblabla wrote: post #86
ungzd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Wave was supposed to replace email. But actually they replaced email with gmail. Now you can't send email from your own server because it will be blacklisted on gmail by default and noone on gmail will receive these emails. So you have to use "cloud email providers". On Android they changed "Email" client to "Gmail" client.

I built my own mail server, and use it for every day communication. If you do everything correctly (mainly setting up DKIM and SPF), you get pretty much trusted by gmail automatically. You might have to make sure your IP address isn't already blacklisted, though I didn't have that problem.

Might have to give it a month or so to settle down aswell and instruct users to mark email as non-spam for automated emails (which helps)

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#368

Post by sneak »

shmerl wrote: post #252
sneak wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why spend time building a federated system when nobody was using the last federated system? Ultimately most users just don't care about federation. Them's the facts. That's why everyone takes PayPal and only nerds use bitcoin. Slack vs IRC, too. Twitter vs GNU Social. I'm sure there are more.

Firstly not nobody. Secondly, how can you grow it if instead of moving it forward, they roll it back? That's the opposite of progress. > Ultimately most users just don't care about federation. Them's the facts. Not really. Everyone is annoyed by this issue. But there isn't much they can do. People need to register on N different services and use N different clients to communicate with users of those networks when the…

People care about convenience, not federation. Google Talk and Facebook Messenger both supported it for multiple years and the number of people who used it rounds to zero. This is where we ended up. There was time for it, just no demand.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#369

Post by thaumasiotes »

startupdiscuss wrote: post #49
techman9 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be around the same time as Amazon discontinues EC2

Yes, it won't happen. But suppose, for whatever reason, they decided gmail was not economical and was not bringing in enough money. Do you think they are obligated to keep it around because our lives are on there? What is their obligation, morally, and what is just a "nice" thing to do?

> Do you think they are obligated to keep it around because our lives are on there?

> What is their obligation, morally, and what is just a "nice" thing to do?

I'd say their moral obligation, in a practical sense, is to let people extract their email from gmail before it's taken down. As of the discontinuing of Google Reader, that seems to be something they understand.

Re: Google Talk Is Being Discontinued

#370

Post by pbhjpbhj »

icebraining wrote: post #287
nickpsecurity wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And the result is OOXML" The result of open-sourcing all data formats and protocols would obviously be all the data formats and protocols released as open-source. OOXML is not the only one in existence.

My point is that companies forced to do this would create abstruse formats, and then even misimplement them, to thwart those trying to interoperate.

Which would be obvious, flout the law, and allow for legal action to be taken.

The company itself has to use the format for live message exchange, have to publish a full working protocol document.

With OOXML Microsoft aren't required to be able to read & write a files correctly when it's written to the protocol. As I envisage it the requirement would be to open the protocol actually used "on the wire"; again with Word Microsoft don't use OOXML as primary.

I think it's workable except perhaps in requiring political will. It's an internet age equivalent of allowing third-party car parts manufacture.

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