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Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

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Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#361

Post by RyanZAG »

vinceguidry wrote: post #360
RyanZAG wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, but that doesn't change the simple logic that if you have a conclusion, it's very easy to lose the truth of a historical situation by instead selecting an explanation that you want. Let's say there is a historical event, and you know of 3 different possible explanations. Explanation 1 is what you learned as a child and it's clearly wrong now because of new evidence. Explanation 2 and 3 both fit all known…

> Do you really have to? Think about it. You have an understanding of history. You can't not have an understanding of history, unless you live under a rock. As you study history more and more, you realize that all of your prior understandings of history are wrong. What do you do then? You don't have a past anymore. The only thing that's making sense is the present. So you re-examine the past in light of the present.…

Following that line, what use is history at all anymore? It's now just a hammer we can use to propagate whatever new idea we currently have. I don't really see the value in such a history.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#362

Post by TheOneTrueKyle »

kasey_junk wrote: post #353
TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people do. It's more your reaction to it. Like you are financially invested in people who don't make food but people who bring food a couple feet to the left. So have you ever tipped a chef?

A note: it's usually against labor laws in the USA for the back of house to be tipped employees or to be apart of a tip pool.

Cool, that just about rounds out the reason why this industry is a piece of shit. I'm sure harryh will find a way defend it though...

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#363

Post by uxp100 »

jdhn wrote: post #284
uxp100 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are inner ring suburbs in the US that have good transit access, short bike trips to jobs, and even dense portions with trendy bars and restaurants, but getting groceries for a family there can still kinda suck. Even if the store is only a mile away, liquids are very heavy. I've have never used instacart though.

What cities are these dense inner ring suburbs near? The only ones I can think of that would have dense inner ring suburbs are NYC, Boston, or Philly.

Dense was incorrect, in retrospect. Let's say denser than stereotypical suburbia. Single family homes and duplexes, few garages. Subdivisions from around 1910 or so. Areas, which are acceptable for car-less living for some people, but not great.

I lived in Santa Clara without a car for years. It was not terrible. Where I live now is better, technically not a suburb, but a pretty suburban feel, mostly duplexes.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#364

Post by dang »

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #343

Why the fuck do you keep talking about cultural norms? "Cultural norms" aren't homogeneous. This cultural norm bullshit you keep spouting is just a way to isolate people from your ideal world that exists in your head. Did you know that some people have different religions? Did you know that some people like macs more than PCs? My fucking intentions are to get some food. Why are you putting so much value into what is…

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. Commenters here need to remain civil and especially to refrain from personal attack. If you don't want to be banned and want to commit to using HN as intended, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. But we can't tolerate people routinely posting as you've done here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13709483 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#365

Post by mattbillenstein »

freyr wrote: post #288
mattbillenstein wrote: post #215

I recently stopped using Instacart, there wasn't a single reason, but the sum of: 1. I'm paying 15-20% more for groceries just on line-item price. The prices Instacart shows vs what you see in store are sometimes a bit less, but more often not, 20% or more more. 2. Inconsistency between what's in Instacart's catalog and what's in the store. Making special requests isn't easy and they usually just go unfulfilled as it…

> I'm paying 15-20% more for groceries just on line-item price. In San Francisco at least, almost every store is listed as "Prices are same as in-store." Target and Whole Foods have "Everyday store prices," which means Instacart doesn't match sale prices. Costco and Cash&Carry are the only stores where Instacart prices are not matched. I'd expect they'd get called out right away if they weren't honoring this. But if…

Yeah, they say that, but I challenge you to do the experiment I did -- put some stuff in your cart you use every week on instacart and safeway.com and compare the total.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#366

Post by foxhound6 »

pshposh wrote: post #293
foxhound6 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for Kozmo.com way back when. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to field them as best I can.

Oh neat! What's your opinion on their collapse and do you think that kind of business model can survive today?

It was the standard "forget profitability, achieve growth and market share." When the crash happened in March/April 2000, the money started running out.

There was some general missteps that were glaring errors both from the outside and inside.

From the outside: no minimum order until a few months before the end. So you could order a pack of gum and a delivery person would bring it out to you. In bike messenger cities, it wasn't awful, but in car cities (Boston), it's brutal.

They also didn't focus on a particular series of products, they wanted to be "amazon in under an hour". Amazon's the only company I know of that's been able to pull off a "we sell everything" model and they didn't start that way (I think Amazon was still mostly books even as late as 2000/2001). That meant massive inventories sitting in warehouses in downtown locations (as opposed to Amazon's distribution centers in the middle of nowhere).

From the inside, setting staffing levels correctly early, expanding too quickly to second tier cities (as opposed to reaching profitability in the larger ones first), and inventory was awful. A couple of inventory stories:

"Why did we just get another 5 boxes of tootsie rolls in? I don't think I've ever seen us sell one." - Me

"We can't ever be out of stock on anything." - Boss

"Well, yeah but could we at least sell ONE box first?"

I was also there when someone fat fingered an inventory order. We were supposed to get 40 copies of The Green Mile for rent and wound up with 400.

I definitely learned a lot there and it was interesting. The model "could" work, but requires such a massive capital outlay and a lot of things to go right that I don't know if someone would be able to pull it off any time soon.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#367

Post by sebleon »

etjossem wrote: post #297
sebleon wrote: post #81

Pooling tips is quite common place in the restaurant industry, this isn't exactly a new way to f * over workers. While this move will reduce the pay for some shoppers, it will help many shoppers that earn less in tips for structural reasons. Ie. servicing low-income neighborhoods, racism & sexism from the tipper, etc

I agree with you, but while the tip pool is sacred (employers shouldn't touch it), a "service fee" is not. Describing it as a service fee allows Instacart to keep a portion of it rather than distributing it all back to employees on the ground.

Ah right on - didn't realize Instacart would be taking a portion of it... and it looks like it would be taxed, effectively making every dollar into a $0.70 tip...

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#368

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #364
TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #343

Why the fuck do you keep talking about cultural norms? "Cultural norms" aren't homogeneous. This cultural norm bullshit you keep spouting is just a way to isolate people from your ideal world that exists in your head. Did you know that some people have different religions? Did you know that some people like macs more than PCs? My fucking intentions are to get some food. Why are you putting so much value into what is…

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. Commenters here need to remain civil and especially to refrain from personal attack. If you don't want to be banned and want to commit to using HN as intended, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. But we can't tolerate people routinely posting as you've done here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13709483…

[deleted]

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#369

Post by eridius »

b3lvedere wrote: post #356
eridius wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and not some weird strange thing like a jar or a fund the corporation came up with. BTW, if a company puts out a tip jar, by law that tip jar must actually go to the employees. The company cannot come along and take the contents of the jar for itself (and if they try, employees can sue them).

What if they cannot afford or are afraid to sue? These people depend very heavily on having an income/job.

You could make that same argument about literally any illegal thing an employer can do to its employees. Tip jars are not somehow extra-risky.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#370

Post by freyr »

mattbillenstein wrote: post #365
freyr wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm paying 15-20% more for groceries just on line-item price. In San Francisco at least, almost every store is listed as "Prices are same as in-store." Target and Whole Foods have "Everyday store prices," which means Instacart doesn't match sale prices. Costco and Cash&Carry are the only stores where Instacart prices are not matched. I'd expect they'd get called out right away if they weren't honoring this. But if…

Yeah, they say that, but I challenge you to do the experiment I did -- put some stuff in your cart you use every week on instacart and safeway.com and compare the total.

I'll try it. I expect that would be an actionable case of false advertising.
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