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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#361

Post by chrisper »

intralizee wrote: post #223
chrisper wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, a lot of CS people in the US seem to really love the US and say stuff like "it sucks not to be in the US." They usually mention how they can afford everything since they make so much money and how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off and that health care through Employer is so much better than through government. Admittedly, this was on Reddit, which is just a huge echo cha…

I believe a lot of tech people are the type that prefer a computer as everything around them is madness in disguise. A lot of people I know over time build mental walls that resemble what the US culture respects and pushes on everyone. Work is #1 and money is everything. I see people that never use their vacation days and feel bad when they do! I believe if there was more focus on philosophy teachings in the US, thin…

>don't see alternative options available

Yes. This is how I feel when reading those comments as well. I am from Europe, but living in the US at the moment, but will be moving back soon again. Obviously, people who never experienced an alternative cannot really see how what they have now might be bad.

Having been in both Europe and the US I can easily compare both lifestyles and conclude that Europe is more suited for me, even if it means that I will not own a 5 bedroom house with 6 TVs.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#362

Post by fra »

bru wrote: post #320
adventured wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making the kind of money being discussed here, such that you trigger higher bracket income taxes, have great health insurance in the US as well. Further, decent jobs in the US almost always include health insurance compensation above the salary. I have a brother that works in a pretty normal job earning $42,000 per year (not an outsized salary in the US), he pays $27 per month for his health insurance through…

> The education system you're referring to is not free at all. The very substantial income taxes in France pay for it. That's like my whole point… You'll effectively get less money than in the US, but you're subsidising a fraternal economy which you enjoy too.

adventured: what you're missing here is that having other people get free education and healthcare is a benefit to you.

Lots of evidence to support that, delightfully summarized in "The Spirit Level" by Wilkinson and Pickett, among others.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#363

Post by noplay »

EliRivers wrote: post #335

"guaranteeing identical family treatment and automatic labor market access" There's a winning move. You can bring your spouse and your spouse can work. That's a dealmaker, right there.

And after the trial period you can't easily be fire (usually in startup you just negotiate sometimes to move and found a new job). And if the company die your missing salary will be paid by the state.

Important when you move your family.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#364

Post by reacharavindh »

dvdhnt wrote: post #244
Tade0 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I moved to Poland from the UK yonks ago, and have equally disastrous - if not worse - language skills as you. Interesting direction. As a Polish person I have to ask: was your reason to move personal, or did you notice a career opportunity and went after it?

So, I still live in the U.S., but generally try to meet people abroad as often as possible while remaining in contact via Facebook, Snapchat, and WhatsApp. While, personally, the U.K. and Sweden remain the most viable destinations if I were to move abroad, Poland isn't far behind in terms of the personalities of the people I've met, the scenery they've showed me, and the cultural/historical depth there. Obviously, ta…

Curious what you think of Netherlands and Denmark as places to live and work..

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#365

Post by bobwaycott »

general_ai wrote: post #322
hacker_9 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the UK, my main reason for not moving anywhere else in Europe is the language barrier. I'm not even sure I'm capable of learning another language; 5 years in school trying to learn French + German, and can still only put together about two sentences. From what I remember, no one else seemed to really pick up the languages either.

Regarding language: you'll surprise yourself. You will have passable French within 6 months or less, and excellent French within 2 years or less, but during the initial 6 months your life will be hell. Your pronunciation will never be as good as that of the natives, though, but if your grammar is all right, no one but complete assholes will mind.

Your pronunciation can most certainly become native. The easiest path there is to immediately abandon all attempts to speak the language as if it is your own, and focus on the rhythm and intonation of the language. Also, pay attention to the shape of your mouth when speaking. I almost feel as if I have an entirely different voice when I speak French than I do in English. Focus on the sound and rhythm of the language as much as you focus on the vocabulary and grammar.

When I was first learning French 22 years ago, my teacher, an older woman who'd grown up and studied in France, shared a funny little joke about French women: their wrinkles start from the lips and spread outward across their face. This was said because they keep their lips far tighter, nearly pursed, than one does when speaking English. I've noticed and paid attention to how the French use their mouths when speaking ever since. It's been immensely helpful.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#366

Post by chrisper »

friedman23 wrote: post #281
chrisper wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, a lot of CS people in the US seem to really love the US and say stuff like "it sucks not to be in the US." They usually mention how they can afford everything since they make so much money and how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off and that health care through Employer is so much better than through government. Admittedly, this was on Reddit, which is just a huge echo cha…

> how they prefer to work 600 hours a week instead of having forced days off Your idea of jobs in the US is wrong. I work 40 hrs a week and sometimes that goes up to 45 or 50 but not often. I get breakfast and lunch provided to me (also dinner but I don't stay for it because I would go insane) and I make 150k + 80k a year in equity. You could also however work at amazon and get paid the same but also work 60 hours a…

I think you misunderstood what I meant with that. I was trying to make the point that whenever people say the US is great, they mention that they would rather work 60 hours a week than maybe 40 and being forced to take every other Friday off or whatever. I am not saying all jobs are like this, but people who say that everything else than the US sucks use this argument.

And why do you think that getting insurance through the employer is better than government? Maybe it is only great for people who know they won't get laid off. In Europe if you get laid off you are still insured. If you are working and wish to have better insurance, you can always go with a private insurance company. I am just not fond of the idea that basic social services are tied to your employment status, since getting laid off could put you in a negative cycle.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#367

Post by noplay »

camus2 wrote: post #42
bogomipz wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how big of an impediment is not knowing French? EDIT: I should have articulated my question better by saying "in the short term." I agree its foolish to not learn the local language if you plan on staying. But if the office language is French that is going to be almost a non-starter for someone who doesn't already speak it. It can be intimidating enough changing jobs in your native language. I know S…

French here. You have to learn french, people in the french administration aren't going to communicate with in you English. Obviously in Paris more and more people know English since it's a touristic area. But it isn't like Berlin,Amsterdam or Brussels where you can live with very little local language knowledge. Correct french is a pain in the ass to learn, the language is needlessly complicated. Frankly If I were a…

I know a lot of english spoken only people in french startup.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#368

Post by rublev »

School-Cotton wrote: post #346
renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016.

What do you do?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#369

Post by user5994461 »

camus2 wrote: post #49
lawless123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timing can't be too much of a coincidence.

The issue is why can't France even attract engineers and investors from WITHIN the Eurozone, these people don't need Visa. The issue is elsewhere, not in the pool of engineers. France can't even retain its own engineers.

> France can't even retain its own engineers.

I confirm!

Leaving the country = Best decision in my life :D

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#370

Post by noplay »

rubber_duck wrote: post #359
renaudg wrote: post #330

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

Free university is a big deal if you move your family.
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