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Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#361

Post by d0vs »

2bluesc wrote: post #65
sandGorgon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 on this. And for people planning to buy an XPS, just wait for a month. new models of XPS are being announced at CES. https://mspoweruser.com/dells-new-convertible-xps-13-leaks-a... The convertible, bezel-less XPS convertible = macbook pro + ipad pro

If you get the XPS and plan on Linux, plan to buy the Intel 7260 2x2 WiFi card. I tried the Dell DW1830 3x3 Broadcom WiFi and the driver support is rough for both WiFi and Bluetooth.

I had the 7260 but for some reason it was slow and was always dropping the connection. Happy with the 8260 now.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#362

Post by willtim »

Xylakant wrote: post #117
aiur3la wrote: post #16

I am sure it is a great laptop, but it also looks like a X1 with larger bezels. Why would you want that instead of X1?

The X1 does not offer docking stations nor does it offer the port range that a T460s offers (full ethernet, card reader, etc). The T460s is a few mm thicker than the X1 and about 200g heavier, but it shares a lot of hardware with and can use the same dock as the X260, T460 and T460p which is interesting if you're a business customer that wants to support a range of options from ultra-portable to powerful. If you're a…

The X1 does offer the OneLink+ docking station and soon will offer a TB3 docking station.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#363

Post by phaedrix »

phaedrix wrote: post #285
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

I recently switched back to Linux (ThinkPad/Arch/Kernel4.8) after 5 years using a Macbook Pro (after using linux for 5 years previously). Linux hardware support has become much better without a doubt. However just in the last couple days I've had the following sporadic issues: * External usb keyboard/mouse simply wouldn't work (and doesn't show up in lsusb). Restart fixed. * If left overnight, occasionally won't wake…

A few notes for context on why (for my needs) linux is better than mac:

Off the top of my head there are a few primary reasons I prefer linux:

* WM Aesthetics - Arch+i3 (or any minimal, preferably tiling WM) provides a gorgeous minimalist aesthetic -- checkout /r/unixporn for examples. MacOS is just too visually noisy for me.

* I was going to buy a new macbook pro, but then they went and got rid of the escape and function keys. Escape I could probably live without (I tap caps-lock for escape), but function keys I want (at least until the apple touchbar proves itself to be comparatively useful).

* I'm tired of Apple's hyperbole and smugness, especially considering they haven't done anything really interesting since Jobs passed away.

* Customizability: really no comparison here. This is my big one.

* Pacman/AUR - honestly homebrew is pretty good though.

Negatives:

* Occasional weirdness/breakage.

* Can take a lot of research to figure out how to get things to work at times (note: usually not common things anymore though, like wifi etc); sometimes they just don't work without an unreasonable amount of work, or at all (e.g. hibernate). Many things are esoteric in general and have marginal documentation (arch wiki is great though). Granted this is part of the fun (I mean, I am a programmer :).

* Spent tens of hours setting things up to function the way I want (keep in mind I don't use gnome/kde so that would likely fix a lot of issues like external monitor support for HiDPI, and I tend to do heavy/esoteric customization of the user experience). Most of this is because I haven't used linux as my personal machine for ~5 years (i.e. setting it up again would be a few hours or less likely). If you use Gnome/Unity/KDE this probably wouldn't be the case.

* HiDPI (x1 carbon): I think this is actually decent in kde/gnome/unity (?), but it's pretty terrible in most GUI apps in my minimal setup. After some fiddling chromium is fine and I generally simply don't use GUI apps otherwise, and when I do it's still usable if not great. Retina screen and OS support was the primary thing that kept me on a mac. (edit: terminal and chrome look great so I'm happy)

* Miss a few apps: Quiver, Artful, Dash

* I still keep my mac around just in case, but haven't needed it yet.

* Touchpad: nothing touches a macbook (although I'm not jazzed about the huge new one), on the other hand the X1 Carbon's is actually quite good.

oh, and I use Manjaro-i3 [1] -- I've been there, done that with setting up Arch from scratch...highly recommended.

1: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-i3-16-06-16-06-1/3329

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#364

Post by cmurf »

ronjouch wrote: post #239
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.

> So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework- .

Having to do your homework rather than it working out of the box is frustrating.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#365

Post by dkuntz2 »

user5994461 wrote: post #355
AsyncAwait wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms. Being a hipster has very little to do with using Linux these days. Wanting a productive, customisable work environment has a lot, on the other hand.

Whenever you're stuck with bad drivers, hardware issues and having to reverse engineer your platform, you are not productive.

Perhaps, but I get very annoyed with basically everything to do with Windows. Best case scenario for actually getting work done on a computer running Windows for me is to just setup a virtual machine running some flavor of Linux, and just spend all my working time in that VM.

Which, in that case, why even have Windows installed, you're just giving resources to something that isn't doing anything besides giving you access to an entirely separate operating system.

Yes, this is perhaps a manufactured problem, but windows is just generally not conductive to my style of work. And really all I need is zsh, tmux, and vim working without causing an audible ping every time I hit a key to be happy.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#366

Post by [deleted] »

user5994461 wrote: post #355
AsyncAwait wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thus the shortest way to get a working system is to stop being an hipster and use one of the major commercial platforms. Being a hipster has very little to do with using Linux these days. Wanting a productive, customisable work environment has a lot, on the other hand.

Whenever you're stuck with bad drivers, hardware issues and having to reverse engineer your platform, you are not productive.

[deleted]

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#367

Post by dkuntz2 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #286
stewbrew wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running linux on my laptops for decades and experienced none of the problems you mentioned. Everything works flawlessly. If you plan to run linux on your laptop, you will have to research first how well the computer is supported. You can't install MacOS (or even Windows) on just any computer neither.

I'll raise you one and say that even if you installed Linux on a laptop built for Linux, it would still be inferior to a MacBook. I bought a System76 GalagoPro a few years back, today it is a media center. It's the most use it's gotten since I bought it.

Arguably the difference is still the amount of resources Apple throws at the Macbook line compared to the amount of resources System76 throws at their computers. Truth be told I'd rather buy a Thinkpad or Dell XPS than a System76 laptop.

Apple has engineers dedicated to building hardware and software that work together. They design and manufacture their own hardware. System76 doesn't. They pick out some components, and get them assembled elsewhere, and ship that out to you.

A better comparison would be Dell's XPS line, which at least has some number of people actively working on making sure they work well and are well supported, but still not to the same degree as Apple, and my understanding is they're generally told "make this work with Linux", as opposed to building a laptop specifically for linux.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#368

Post by jlgaddis »

tommica wrote: post #25
herbst wrote: post #3

Ive went with a T420 recently, mostly because of the keyboard. But also because $400 for laptop + battery + Samsung SSD + 16GB hyperX Ram sounded so cheap i could not resist. And honestly even after a 2015 MBP it feels perfect for all my needs. In fact due to the superior RAM and SSD it feels often way faster than the MBP for 5 times that price felt. Plus it has way better battery life. Seriously Thinkpads are the be…

Huh, didn't know that t420 supported 16gb of ram - time to upgrade my trusty & dusty workhorse!

It's "unofficially" supported but it does work if you stick to the recommended RAM.

I picked up a cheap, off-lease T420 several months ago and added in 16 GB of RAM and an SSD and had a pretty decent machine for ~$250 all-in.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#369

Post by dkuntz2 »

driverdan wrote: post #259
NikolaNovak wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep buying refurbished T420 laptops; even though my employer provided T450, I cannot switch to keyboard without standard Insert/Delete/Home/End set - not to mention losing the Ultrabay flexibility etc. T420 was the pinacle of the Thinkpads for me; T530 was a meh, T540 is the only time I've seen co-workers genuinely slam their laptops (removal of touchpad buttons etc). T450 brought touchpad buttons and some separat…

> I cannot switch to keyboard without standard Insert/Delete/Home/End set Learn the alternative shortcut keys. You can keep your hands closer to / on the home row instead of reaching across the keyboard. > not to mention losing the Ultrabay flexibility How often do you swap drives? I haven't used optical media for 5+ years.

I have a coworker who uses an old thinkpad, and he's swapped out the optical drive with another battery.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#370

Post by dkuntz2 »

gnuvince wrote: post #219
dorfsmay wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who buy Thikpads, myself included, are doing so mainly for the track point, which the XPS doesn't have.

I prefer using a Trackpad, however the Thinkpads have a middle button, which I use all the time in Linux.

I think by default hitting the left and right mouse buttons in linux emulates a middle click. You can also configure three finger clicks as a middle click, which is my preference.
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