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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#361

Post by hsitz »

makecheck wrote: post #342

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

Yes. Another inconsistency involves the point in time at which a tip is expected. Historically tips came after the meal (or other service), and in theory you would tip well if you were happy with service, and badly or not at all if you were unhappy. In itself that made a little bit of sense (w/o considering the contradictions you mentioned).

But nowadays you're often expected to tip at beginning of meal (i.e., when you order and pay at register), and your tip is not tied to quality of service at all (and very often there isn't even any actual service, other than taking of order and preparation of food). As an older person this strikes me as bizarre; grew up in atmosphere where tips were always after meal and explicitly tied to quality of service.

Re: No tipping means better business

#362

Post by freddyc »

gonzo41 wrote: post #210
tjic wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. So you also dislike bonuses for white collar professionals? Because it's exactly the same thing.

I worked in finance sales for about 3 years. Bonuses are fun but I have seen a lot of misconduct in the pursuit of a bonus. Maybe its just banking... I'm all for the no tipping and i happily work without a bonus. And i would expect other to as well. If you can't show up and be consistent in performance without a carrot then thats maybe not a great reflection of how you work and what you value.

> Bonuses are fun but I have seen a lot of misconduct in the pursuit of a bonus. Maybe its just banking...

It's not just banking. I was horrified at some of the behavior I saw from the sales folks at a software start-up I worked for (including the CEO). As a sales lifer, our CEO came up with some pretty generous comp packages for the sales team that promoted bad behavior and short-term "wins" that the rest of us would be cleaning up for months.

Re: No tipping means better business

#363

Post by flog »

j2bax wrote: post #214
dalbasal wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

Yes, it's anywhere outside of strong US ties. In New Zealand you'll get chased down the street by the honest waiter telling you that you've forgotten your change.

Re: No tipping means better business

#364

Post by gcb0 »

X86BSD wrote: post #333
grecy wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse still, tipping is merely a way of keeping class hierarchies, and it's disgusting. When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. Of course, they might not too. Labor laws, minimum wage, etc are all there to make this illegal in a work contract, and it should b…

Tipping is supposed to be for exceptional service. For example, if the wait person takes your order and brings your food and nothing more I wouldn't tip. If they do the above and keep your water glass filled constantly without need to ask, if your meal, drink orders and dessert come out promptly and correctly, if they ask if everything is ok throuought the meal at appropriate times, etc I would tip. Getting good serv…

thats is also wrong.

repeat visits is what you do for good to exceptional service/product at a good price.

tipping culture is just the lazy way for restaurants owners to deal with high attrition rates and lack of training and decent wages.

Re: No tipping means better business

#365

Post by cmurf »

makecheck wrote: post #342

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

Try going to a foreign country, almost any, and have this conversation. They'll look at you like you've gone insane, really. Every conversation I've had with a foreigner about this and they think American's are batshit when it comes to the tipping strategy and how much noodle time and effort we spend on it.

Basically it's a type of freeloading. The business manager is dumping off their decision making, verbal and monetary feedback to their employee, onto the customer as if we're the employer (in part). Which is just stupid. It doesn't really give the proper feedback in any reliable sense compared to even a mediocre manager.

Re: No tipping means better business

#366

Post by ydt »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #356
makecheck wrote: post #342

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

> One is the idea of a percentage I've always found this odd too. Say for a special occasion I decide to go to a high end steakhouse... mid-range bottle of wine, two nice steaks, a'la cart sides, appetizer, and desert we're at $500. That's $100 at 20%. Did that person really do more work than the person I tipped $10 at Chili's (an american casual family restaurant)? > Another inconsistency is where to tip I usually e…

Here's the thing. I worked in the restaurant business in various capacities all through college. As a cash transaction, it will come as no surprise that a lot of tips go unreported as income. From time to time the IRS will decide the reported income from a restaurant seems low and audit the staff. It was generally understood that if you had reported 10% of your sales as a server/bartender as tip income you'd be ok. If not you were in trouble (and this happened to people I know). So if you tip $20 on a $500 dollar tab because it's the same amount of work as $100 dollar tab. your server will most likely still claim $50 in income and be at about break even once the taxes are paid on it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#368

Post by dragonwriter »

surrealvortex wrote: post #17

Unless everyone decides to kill tips all at once, this will never work out. No server will work for a fixed 20% increment when they have the potential to get a lot more than that, especially on Saturday nights. There have been plenty of examples of this not working out [1]. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/05/15/478096516/why...

> No server will work for a fixed 20% increment when they have the potential to get a lot more than that, especially on Saturday nights.

So don't make it a fixed pay increment, make it a floor set by a fixed pay increment, but allow it to go higher with a revenue sharing formula.

Re: No tipping means better business

#369

Post by golemotron »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #318

I read an argument once that that tipping is probably illegal under US employment law because, in practice, its racist. Research indicates that servers who are ethnic minorities are tipped less than white women, who are tipped most. Sure the employer isn't doing the discrimination themselves but they are setting up compensation scheme that, in practice, is discriminatory. This is called "adverse impact" in US employm…

> I read an argument once that that tipping is probably illegal under US employment law because, in practice, its racist. Research indicates that servers who are ethnic minorities are tipped less than white women, who are tipped most.

Wouldn't that make minority owned businesses racist too by the same logic? If people make choices based on race, it puts them and their employees at a disadvantage.

Re: No tipping means better business

#370

Post by nommm-nommm »

golemotron wrote: post #369
nommm-nommm wrote: post #318

I read an argument once that that tipping is probably illegal under US employment law because, in practice, its racist. Research indicates that servers who are ethnic minorities are tipped less than white women, who are tipped most. Sure the employer isn't doing the discrimination themselves but they are setting up compensation scheme that, in practice, is discriminatory. This is called "adverse impact" in US employm…

> I read an argument once that that tipping is probably illegal under US employment law because, in practice, its racist. Research indicates that servers who are ethnic minorities are tipped less than white women, who are tipped most. Wouldn't that make minority owned businesses racist too by the same logic? If people make choices based on race, it puts them and their employees at a disadvantage.

How does that follow?
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