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Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

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361–370 of 391 posts

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rotary phones are from the 70's and earlier. The last rotary phone I saw for sale was, I think, in the 1980s, the last one I saw in use was in the 2000s. Its quite possible that someone could be a millennial and have used one (IIRC, we used one in my house until 1986 -- the other phones in the house were touch tone -- and only ditched it because we happened to move.)

Sure, I remember rotaries hanging out for a while after that, but they were gone most places by the mid-80's in the US. Not to mention those in museums.

This is US centric. Rotaries were in use in EU way into middle 90s at least.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#362

Could be just me but it seems to me that for some jobs (Architects, tech leads) in enterprise-ish industries (Big data / Java / Spring / Cloud) they look (at least from job posting) for ridiculous years of experience. I for one (nearing my 40's) didn't see any problem landing any job (non SF area, mostly Java/Scala/Spring and Spark/Hadoop on AWS). I get tons of LinkedIn recruiter spam, and it's easy to tell my age fr…

> they look (at least from job posting) for ridiculous years of experience Yeah, they want 20 years of experience. But they still won't hire anybody over 25. Start young, kids!

Actually we did, but nobody is hiring for C64 Basic and assembly anymore.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to be harsh but isn't that an odd thing to bring up in a job interview?

Nah, it was the "so when you're outside of work, what do you like to do?" part of the interview. Not like I was whiteboarding code one moment and then all "so, GTA 5, huh?" the next.

LOL, sure that makes sense. Cheers.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty isn't tied directly to bigotry. Rather, a lack of new ideas and mindsets in close proximity can present an environment conducive to the development of bigotry (or its less malicious cousin, ignorance).

Believing that no matter how bad your life is you're still better than someone else by virtue of race becomes more tempting the closer you are to rock bottom.

What data are you basing this claim on?

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#365
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty isn't tied directly to bigotry. Rather, a lack of new ideas and mindsets in close proximity can present an environment conducive to the development of bigotry (or its less malicious cousin, ignorance).

Well that disagrees with what I have seen. You can say it is correlation and that those are somehow born with the biggot gene can't escape poverty. I think it works the other way, poverty amplifies and accentuates biggotry, rasim, sexims and any other -ism. This is based on living in other countries, mostly in US though, in both poor and rich communities, some were diverse poor and diverse rich.

Anecdotal evidence is a poor basis for an argument.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#366
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "have you seen this question before" interviewing I suspect that this was meant to refer to interview questions with an "Aha!" answer, that are unlikely to be answered correctly by people who don't already know the answer. For example, I think, "How would you detect a cycle in a linked list?" is a bad question because, if the candidate implements Floyd's algorithm on the whiteboard, the likely assumption is that th…

Exactly. Questions that have a super optimized answer that's probably non-intuitive and unlikely to be arrived at if you've only spent a few minutes exposed to the problem. These are basically puzzle questions in disguise. In general I think there are two kinds of coding questions that are worth asking. Straightforward implementation based questions that should be solved basically as fast as the candidate can write,…

In some ways, the problem is never the question, but how the results are evaluated.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#367
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco strikes as one of these low-tolerance / high-discrimination places. The rapidity with which people flip the idiot bit on you, due to puddle-shallow signalling in the Bay Area really takes my breath away. - The sound of keys clicking in a phone interview automatically means you are Googling the answer in an interview. Never mind that you are a dynamic language programmer and you are writing a 10 second s…

>>You must be able to mad-libs complete the paraphrase of recent CS textbooks, or you obviously never covered the topic. Only recently a friend of mine narrated an interview tale. I don't exactly remember the precise question, but apparently he was asked to solve a problem in 30 mins(Two problems is what interviewer expected him to solve in an hour). One of such problem apparently he couldn't solve it in the time com…

> Suffix Automata

Reminds me of the Aho-Corasick string-matching algorithm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aho–Corasick_algorithm

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the rural countryside around here that put up gigantic Trump posters on their farms, so unless you're talking about some other definition of bigotry, I don't you can generalize "rural" as "not bigoted." Also: I have never had trouble getting jobs in the Bay Area, though I moved before I turned 45. I did however work with people who were late 40s/early 50s and engineers, so I didn't see a huge age prejudice.

I'd rather keep politics off here, but implying trump=bigoted is a rather SF view :^)

Trump makes bigoted statements. It's not a debate or a "view". It's just a fact.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have 30 years of experience in your job when your job didn't exist 30 years ago. You can't have 15 years of experience in [whatever thing] when [whatever thing] didn't exist 15 years ago. Note: 15 years ago = 56k internet, paying by the hour, for the 0.xyz% of select few people on the planet

I think this attitude is the crux of the ageism problem: "Your experience is irrelevant because this shiny new technology didn't exist 20 years ago"

I never said that the experience is irrelevant.

To quote the other comment: "20 years experience feels like 4 years experience repeated 5 times with different buzzwords".

There are two things which come to mind and that I'd like to point out.

- Each 4 year cycle is bringing less and less experience. The guy who is starting now is going to work for at least 45 years. We could say that it will be a tremendous amount of experience, but it's more likely than he will not be able to sell > 30 years of experience. [it's challenging and not specific to tech work]

- There exist no people with > 30 years of experience. That's not to negate the handful of these guys in the SV and a couple of research centers across the world. Relatively speaking, the amount of people with 30 years of experience is roundable to zero.

- Corollary: It's difficult to know what it's like to have 30 years of experience in the current market.

- Final word: Shiny technologies are only affecting the 20 years old bro coders in the 70 hours web startups. The bunch of the jobs are still in old school industries like medical/aerospace/finance/government/contracting who stick to old school tech and never upgrade.

Re: Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry

#370
Don't believe the lies a single second.

The truth is, it is NOT tough being 3X-4X in silicon valley.

What is tough is accepting to put up with startups about to fail, long hours, mediocre pay, little benefits and immature coworkers. That does limit the size of the job market.

That issue is faced by everyone, independently of their age. The youngers selves just happen to have lower standards in average

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