Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security • Hacker News Board

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#361

Post by praneshp » Mon, May 02, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

tyrust wrote: post #254

avn2109 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad grew up under the Soviets, where he learned a thing or two about waste, inefficiency, and systematic corruption. He says the following: "If the government ever gives you the chance to bribe them, do it immediately and with a smile. Pay double if they'll let you. You'll always come out ahead in the long run." Precheck/Global entry is clearly unrelated to actual security; instead, it's an obvious shakedown, plai…

>you'd be dumb not to pay up It's a difficult decision, one that I've been wrestling with for a while. Imagine if everyone (and I mean everyone) collectively said "This is bullshit." and refused to pay for PreCheck. The TSA would have no choice but to stop the program. This is probably the only way they would stop it (beyond legislation, ha.). Unfortunately this will never happen. People don't want to stand in line.…

> Imagine if everyone (and I mean everyone) collectively said "This is bullshit.

You miss an important concept (that I used to see all the time from administrators in India): Divide and Conquer. They will target some groups of people individually, and dangle some carrot/stick (Free/ Extra Harassment/ you don't have to stand in line with "them"). That's how "everyone" stops calling bullshit.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#362

Post by WildUtah » Mon, May 02, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

JimboOmega wrote: post #260

WildUtah wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AeroMexico has a monopoly on flights from Latin America to Asia. (Technically, you can fly from Brazil to Abu Dhabi or something, but only AM goes to east Asia.) The AM flights run from Mexico City to Narita (a third-tier city in Japan) and Shanghai, usually on 787s. They may add Peking. Similar services are available connecting through LAX, SFO, or DFW and those are often faster if you're going to other Asian cities…

Narita is the main airport for international flights to Tokyo. It's a bit of a hike to Tokyo proper, but there's a dedicated train. Anyway, I would imagine there are a lot of travelers (business, in particular) sensitive to time but not so much to price, for whom a direct flight is worth a few hundred $ - there was a solid market for the concord, remember. Anyway saving the connection, and a "normal" customs/security…

Tokyo International Airport at Haneda is the main airport for international flights to Tokyo -- at least for Japanese carriers. Foreign carriers are exiled to Narita -- a US$200 cab ride away -- as a protectionist measure.

Haneda is right next to downtown Tokyo.

---

The price difference persists for connecting flights from airports outside MEX and to destination airports outside NRT and Shanghai so it isn't based on direct flights.

Though SkyTeam partnership connections in Asia are much less useful now that Delta has abandoned the NW network and most of its own intra-Asia network.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#363

Post by praneshp » Mon, May 02, 2016, 8:56 PM UTC

fbuilesv wrote: post #352

laxatives wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown with shaving razors and pocket knives attached to my keys numerous times. They get found and confiscated about 20% of the time. I recently forgot to remove both and the TSA agent spent 5 minutes looking for something. He found the shaving razor, but not the pocket knife and was very pleased with himself. Its absurd the profiling going on with the TSA. If I dress well, I get rushed through the lines quickly…

Similar story here. I'm a smoker and usually do international/inside-US flights on a monthly basis. In 7-8 years the only lighters I recall losing have been in my home country (where pat downs and having your bags opened are a common thing). Curiously, I haven't had a TSA line longer than 45 minutes flying from places in NY, CA or FL (I mostly flight late evening/disgustingly-early morning though) in the last few mon…

I think the parent commenter was using "dropout" as an adjective, not a derogatory term.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#364

Post by wutbrodo » Mon, May 02, 2016, 8:58 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #336

tlrobinson wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they wouldn't institute similar TSA-style [1] security on a shiny new high-profile high speed rail? 1. Or literally the TSA: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Right, Spain already does this. And I've during high-profile events I've seen TSA patrolling the main subway stations in Washington, DC.

I've been travelling all around Spain for the last month and I wouldn't characterize the Renfe/AVE security as anywhere near the TSAs. You basically just put your bags through a machine and get waved through, and I've yet to wait in much of a line.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#365

Post by praneshp » Mon, May 02, 2016, 8:59 PM UTC

stevesearer wrote: post #203

nfriedly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just as bad at identifying actual "weapons": I flew to South America with a layover in Miami a few years back. Got past TSA without any trouble on the domestic leg, then I had to go through again for the international leg. The second time through security, they said they saw a blade on the x-ray.. turns out they were right. I forgot I had left a multi-tool in my bag. Thankfully, they just trashed it and let m…

Similar story - a member of my group went through security at LAX with no problems, but was stopped at Heathrow because of something suspicious in her handbag. We emptied everything out of the bag, re-scanned it, and the object was still detected. After feeling around in the bag we discovered some fabric cutting shears had apparently been accidentally been sewn into the lining by someone on the factory line (they loo…

Same with me, 10 days ago in Dubai. Unfortunately, there were TWO levels of officers who didn't have decision making authority, they had to reach out to a 3rd level who decided it was something in the bag's fabric (vs me carrying something). Unfortunately, where you are traveling to has some impact in DXB. SFO looks much better(for someone like me) than Abu Dhabi/Sharjah

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#366

Post by linux_girl » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:04 PM UTC

Until I ran out of time, I used to run a blog which tracked TSA Agent arrests. On average, a TSA agent is arrested _every day_ for stealing from passengers (400/year)

Here's one "rogues gallery": http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/photos/photos-rogues-gallery-t...

The TSA does not make us safer.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#367

Post by mikeash » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #116

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory is, because of the checks no further attempts will be made. Its one thing to die for your cause; another to be arrested for your cause and disappear forever anonymously.

I can also carry a clown hat all day long and it will keep the pink elephants away. But there are not pink elephant! Then it means my hat is working! My theory on planes hijacking is rather that if you have a bunch of arabs taking over a plane today (after 9/11, the Paris attacks, etc), the passengers will think that doing nothing will lead to certain death, and therefore it will be impossible for the terrorists to c…

People do occasionally try to blow up airplanes and such. The tactic of hijacking an airplane to crash it into something isn't the only possibility.

If your assertion is that security checks prevent no attacks, then you're implying that no attacker has been discouraged from making an attack due to the presence of security screening. This strikes me as absurd.

There are good arguments to be made that many aspects of security screening are useless, and even that the useful aspects aren't worth what they cost. I would tend to agree with many of those arguments. But to argue that the security screening process as a whole does not prevent any attacks is taking it way too far.

Just look at how incredibly frequent hijackings were in decades past, and how rare they became after basic screening was instituted. It does work to an extent. If you want to attack it, attack it on a cost/benefit basis or attack the more ridiculous bits of it, like banning liquids or screening shoes.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#368

Post by gnud » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:09 PM UTC

julian_t wrote: post #120

CuriouslyC wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to go back and check a necklace because TSA agents claimed it could be used to whip or garotte. A freaking necklace!

I often fly with a travel-size guitar (one of these: http://www.guitarbench.com/Images%20for%20articles/brunner/8... ). The neck comes off and it packs into a case that's small enough for carry-on. It has often struck me that a guitar neck with six metal strings attached would make a fairly effective weapon (at least, by TSA standards!) but I've never had any trouble getting through security, apart from occasionally…

Must be hard to keep the action and tuning good on that, after re-assembly?

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#369

Post by mikestew » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:11 PM UTC

crystalmeph wrote: post #289

brown9-2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why has Congress not shut it down? I don't think anybody really likes the TSA, so I can't imagine there'd be too much opposition to a bill abolishing them Good luck finding someone who wants to be the anti-airport-security candidate.

I don't know. Is there anyone who isn't a politician or employed by the TSA who thinks the TSA is doing a job worthy of their funding? Even though you have to take it as a fact that the status quo is a powerful force in politics, it seems like there is room for someone who wants to get elected on a populist platform to make this a banner issue.

Is there anyone who isn't a politician or employed by the TSA who thinks the TSA is doing a job worthy of their funding?

Yes. By some counts that group would include the majority of Americans. Personally, I've heard the words, "it makes me feel safer" come out of the mouths of what appear to be otherwise competent adult humans.

Re: Catching a Flight? Budget Hours, Not Minutes, for Security

#370

Post by mikeash » Mon, May 02, 2016, 9:12 PM UTC

MichaelBurge wrote: post #39

I think Trump would abolish the TSA. Cruz has said he would, too. I'd like to see either one get in, though I wonder if the President should be able to just decide on his own to shut down an agency that Congress has approved. Why has Congress not shut it down? I don't think anybody really likes the TSA, so I can't imagine there'd be too much opposition to a bill abolishing them. It affects so many people you could pr…

The President clearly does not have that sort of power. The power of that office has been exaggerated to a crazy degree. Regardless of what he wants, President Trump can't shut down the TSA, or for that matter deport Muslims or build a wall on the Mexican border.

I can't see Congress abolishing the TSA. Just bringing up the idea will give a representative's opponents tons of ammunition to paint them as "soft on terror" and endangering Americans. People are fearful of this stuff. To the extent that people dislike the TSA, it's only because they're more annoying and slow than necessary, not because people think the whole concept is bad. If a member of Congress could come up with a way to improve the TSA then I imagine that would pass pretty easily, but of course that's a harder job.