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Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

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Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#361

Post by vdnkh »

It took me a year to find a new job. I got rejected from on-sites 8 or 9 times, a few other rejections before that. I've been through everything the OP has and more. I was once forgotten in an interview room while my interviewer played foosball and then went home. I've managed to pass all rounds with "positive feedback" only to get rejected three days later. I've swam through rivers of aerated bullshit to find a new job and it sucked - but I never once believed that I was a bad engineer. Hate the game all you want (and I really do hate it), but you have no choice other than to play it or have an extremely strong network.

I didn't even want to go to the interview which landed me my new job. In my previous phone screen they were looking to hire a single person.The perfect fit. Probably not me - what the hell do I know about video players? And it's one of those interviews where they'll boot you to the curb if you do poorly in the first half. Whatever, I'll go anyway. And as luck would have it, I didn't get booted. I did damn well. And in my final phone screen with the CTO, I got asked how to find the Nth last spot from the end of a linked list.

I really wasn't good at interviewing for a long time. And from the outset, I didn't know everything I needed to get the job I wanted. It was consistent studying and a buy-in to the bullshit that interviewing is that landed me a new job.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#362

Post by mirekrusin »

Couple of years ago one of London companies did it well IMHO, after little chat about few technical things (which looked more like Friday night chat in a pub with colleagues than anything else) they said there's computer in the corner, here's a problem (it was to use macfuse to implement in-memory virtual filesystem with basic file ops) - I was left with computer, with internet connection, I could browse whatever I wanted, nobody was looking over my shoulder etc. Even though macfuse was a bit crap at that time (kernel would sometimes panic so i had to reboot machine few times) and I never used macfuse before - it still felt like there was no pressure. After that quick chat about written code and next meeting was with CEO about the salary etc, all smooth.

Since then I think one of the best approaches is to come up with work related problem, leave person to solve it with computer, keyboard, internet etc. with no time limit (if candidate can't solve the problem, they will give up and just say it after 2h or so). Quick chat about the code afterwards will tell you in 1 minute if person understands it and didn't copy pasted solution etc.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#363

Post by cloudjacker »

Hey Sahat, one problem is the small sample size any one person can get during the interview process, so I recently did this process and in one month I embarked on interviews with 15 companies and progressed to various stages. The recruiter was Hired.com and I wrote about it here:

https://gist.github.com/ericlw/16b55e038028e1e4768e

Because Hired.com prescreens companies and have a limited pool of both types of companies and types of candidates, it is easier to get a better sample size based on type of role.

I primarily talk about some of the arbitrary offers, instead of the interview process. But you might find it interesting too.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#364

Post by wdewind »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #353
wdewind wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the idea is that they aren't memorized by chance first, they are known pretty well because ideally you have a track record of applying them to real life problems (even if they are just school projects or side projects). I can describe times I've used queues to solve various problems, for instance. The other thing is, as others have pointed out, seeing how someone breaks down and approaches and unfamiliar problem…

Very few people are working as comp scientists, but rather software engineers, making BFS=Queues a random trivia question that must be prepared for in advance.

BFS queues are not particularly difficult to describe, and deciding whether or not to do breadth or depth first is something I think about all the time. Frequently, for instance, in data access patterns, that decision can have a very big effect on performance. I can't agree that it's a random trivia question.

Edit: Ok, let me add some nuance here. I think we both probably agree that implementing a shortest path algo perfectly in an interview setting is beyond reasonable or useful. But I would expect an engineer to be able to have a discussion about it that shows me they understand the basic concepts and given google and a bit of time could relearn that. But without the complexity of shortest path I would not expect basic BFS to be outside of the scope of an interview. I guess that's just where I draw my lines.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#365

Post by ionforce »

liquidise wrote: post #233

I recently wrote a post on designing better tech interview questions. [1] But one thing i never see interviewees do is outright ask, "Wait, what does this question actually tell you about me?" I find myself asking it in nearly every interview i go to. If you ask and your interviewer gets glassy-eyed or gives you the laughably generic "it shows how well you think algorithmically" you know that you are being interviewe…

> But one thing i never see interviewees do is outright ask, "Wait, what does this question actually tell you about me?"

I kind of get what you're saying but it could easily be construed as openly challenging the interviewer. And I'm sure some small set of interviewers could appreciate something like that. But I'm willing to bet most people would find that to be an uncomfortable position to be in.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#366

Post by wdewind »

mkohlmyr wrote: post #321
wdewind wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently hear this basic point: "Software interviews test algorithms and data structures that are so clearly not relevant to the work being done and soooo theoretical I don't understand why interviewing isn't better???" I used to believe this myself, mostly because I didn't have a strong CS background and was still successful at carrying out software projects at a relatively high level. The truth is, as I learned…

I think you are both taking extreme sides of this argument when there is a very reasonable middle ground Should a programmer you hire be able to reason about CS problems? Yes. Do they need to be able to write out the best possible solution to a problem on a whiteboard within 15 minutes? No. The white-board sessions only really serve to intimidate people who aren't good public speakers, think better with some time and…

I totally agree with this. In one of my other replies I mentioned the concept of having multiple paths for a candidate to be successful through, and I agree that "whiteboard coding" should not be the only way to prove you are smart and competent.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#367

Post by shawn-butler »

... I really wish companies would be more transparent about their candidate rejection reasons. From this day on, I was even more disappointed — both with myself and tech hiring process — rejection, rejection, rejection. It honestly feels as if I am a complete failure and an unhirable[sic] candidate...

Companies simply cannot give a reason for rejection. It is a "fake/legitimate" legal liability HR says exists opening the door to discrimination lawsuits.

My advice is never interview at a company at which you do not have some prior professional introduction (network, friend, foaf, etc). These people will be able to give you the real feedback on why you were or were not hired.

Some recruiters with longstanding relationships at the companies they are placing at will also be able to find out, but may or may not be honest with you.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#368

Post by pyb »

traviswingo wrote: post #236

I interviewed at 17 companies before finding one that fit me. It's more of a persistence game than anything, and I began to realize that a lot of companies were just testing the waters, only willing to hire someone if they really blew them away (obviously this is hard to do under interview circumstances). Once I found a company that actually _needed_ me, the experience became a positive one - they went out of my way…

Agreed ! So many companies are advertising positions, but are not that committed to hiring. They just enjoy having people coming to their office to get grilled. I guess it must be very rewarding for the interviewer.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#369

Post by balls187 »

tachion wrote: post #170

After reading author's post I've a feeling that its not the programming skills that the author has issues with, but instead the attitude, stress durability, expectations to the world around him. True, hiring can be broken, it often is, but as with everything, the persistence usually allows us to find the proper company with proper hiring process. He's getting frustrated pretty quickly, complains when is asked to perf…

> its not the programming skills that the author has issues with, but instead the attitude

vs:

> At some point during our conversation I casually mentioned Webpack 2 and tree-shaking, which was followed by a question on how would I implement a tree-shaking algorithm. How the hell would I know?

Attitude cuts both ways.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#370

Post by mixmastamyk »

wdewind wrote: post #364
mixmastamyk wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people are working as comp scientists, but rather software engineers, making BFS=Queues a random trivia question that must be prepared for in advance.

BFS queues are not particularly difficult to describe, and deciding whether or not to do breadth or depth first is something I think about all the time. Frequently, for instance, in data access patterns, that decision can have a very big effect on performance. I can't agree that it's a random trivia question. Edit: Ok, let me add some nuance here. I think we both probably agree that implementing a shortest path algo…

Hmm, their difficulty is irrelevant. Your experience (like everyone's) is anecdotal and not representative of the immense fields of CS and SE that no one person can know all of, but could certainly look up.

If you are looking for a computer scientist, ask for one in the job req. No shame in that, it would save everyone time.

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