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Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#361

Post by tropo »

david-given wrote: post #151
zymhan wrote: post #4

"Linux geeks can think of it sort of the inverse of "wine" -- Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows. Microsoft calls it their "Windows Subsystem for Linux"." I find it amazing that you can have such a functional Ubuntu environment by translating system calls. Microsoft does have the advantage of Linux being open-source I suppose, while the Wine project had to reverse engineer DLLs. Or have you supply them on yo…

So, uh. I did this! Crudely. In 2010. http://cowlark.com/lbw/ It's a Linux syscall translator for Windows. It works well enough to run a Debian userland, although it's got so many holes and rough edges that I would never, ever, ever suggest using it for anything other than a stunt. It uses Interix to do most of the heavy lifting, so all LBW does is to translate from Linux syscalls to Interix syscalls; so we get a Uni…

That "big pile of key-value strings pushed onto the stack above the environment" is auxv. You can see it in the binary /proc/*/auxv files. It's generated by the kernel's ELF loader.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#364

Post by riotdash »

pookeh wrote: post #339
riotdash wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest here. Does this change make some developers actually even consider to change their OS X/Linux Desktops to Windows? Yeah it is really cool thing that we can finally use windows cmd like the terminal on unix systems however: - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware…

While I prefer to develop today on OS X...your post is nothing but FUD. > What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? Windows prolly has more GUI applications than both those OSes combined. That's not necessarily a good thing but it's not bad either. It just means there is a Win substitute for everything. > What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? Same answer as above. > What about all those billions and…

"Windows prolly has more GUI applications than both those OSes combined."

Oh...right all those cool FREE_VIDEO_CONVERTER_YOUTUBE_MP4_DOWNLOAD_FAST_FREE_GREEN_CARD.EXE applications...right....

Now days all the developer/engineer GUI apps are made OS X first, Linux second and maybe Windows.

"I download a lot of crap on my home Win computer and haven't had a virus once in the past 6 or 7 years. There are likely more Android viruses active now than Windows."

You being extremely lucky doesn't change statistics.

"If you don't give permission the action is not taken. Granted I am currently getting spammed to update my home computer from win 7 to 10 but it hasn't force installed on me. Likewise for automatic updates."

You only answered to the first point and still why would anyone change to machine where you either have to do crazy hackarounds and avoid critical updates in the future or become a slave?

"Which is what this new initiative is trying to fix."

Bringing a single tool to current version of Windows has nothing to do with the fact that they can still go down the Windows 8 road in the next version.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#365

Post by zxcvcxz »

stcredzero wrote: post #205
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #46

microsoft is leveraging FOSS Linux to get Mac users. I think it's a real smart move. The author points to using grep and Xargs and some other tools to quickly update a package. That's the key here. These bash/Linux utilities are productivy boosters for all the Linux and Mac/bsd people out there. I can't imagine living without them and they're necessary for any system I develop on (which is currently a Mac).

microsoft is leveraging FOSS Linux to get Mac users. I think it's a real smart move. Apple leveraged a form of BSD -nix to get developer mindshare. Now Microsoft is leveraging FOSS Linux to leapfrog Apple. It is a smart move. While OS X isn't bad for -nix-like development, it still involves jumping through hoops and compromises. (Homebrew/Macports)

I believe there will be many hoops to jump through to use this as a development environment too, and the limitations of this ABI will be plenty.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#366

Post by taude »

riotdash wrote: post #321
talawahdotnet wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I think they are going after developers who use OS X because it is UNIXy. Smart move given how en vogue Apple laptops have become for developers these days.

Let's be honest here. Does this change make some developers actually even consider to change their OS X/Linux Desktops to Windows? Yeah it is really cool thing that we can finally use windows cmd like the terminal on unix systems however: - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware…

Many of us, I'd say a majority of Devs work in an environment where you don't really have a choice, other than Windows...

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#367

Post by darreld »

riotdash wrote: post #321
talawahdotnet wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I think they are going after developers who use OS X because it is UNIXy. Smart move given how en vogue Apple laptops have become for developers these days.

Let's be honest here. Does this change make some developers actually even consider to change their OS X/Linux Desktops to Windows? Yeah it is really cool thing that we can finally use windows cmd like the terminal on unix systems however: - What about lack of all the Linux/OS X GUI software? - What about lack of all the UNIX OS features? - What about all those billions and billions of Windows malware, viruses, adware…

Quite a load here.

I switched to Mac for my personal development in 2001 but still used Windows at work. I have found over the last couple years that I have been migrating back to Windows for quite a few things. For me personally, I find the UI in Windows to be more productive and faster. The features Apple has been adding are not things I'm very interested in and I haven't been using my 2009 MBP for much anymore except syncing with my iPhone. A number of Linux VM's are always around for development work and if I can do it all now in Windows, I'm all in.

I've been holding off buying a new laptop and, if this new feature works as advertised I will not be buying Apple.

Haven't had malware in years. Vista and Windows 8? Advertisements? Future shit and other awfulness you can't remember? Yeah those really sound like valid points.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#368

Post by kej »

13of40 wrote: post #343
rahoulb wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a second machine (maybe a cheap laptop) then yes, I would consider it. As a side note, Windows NT had a POSIX layer as one of its three main APIs (Along with Win32 and OS/2), so in theory, at least, it should have been easy to port true UNIX apps to it. I have no idea what state the POSIX layer is in now; probably in a similar state to the OS/2 layer.

The POSIX subsystem was removed some time around Server 2003. They replaced it with Unix Services for Windows, which was based on an acquired technology, but that's no longer available as of Windows 10. After laying fallow for so long, I really doubt they used the old multi-subsystem architecture to implement this new stuff. Could be wrong, though.

Pretty sure the new stuff is based on the aborted attempt to get Android apps to run on Windows phones.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#369

Post by xorblurb »

niutech wrote: post #333
kiproping wrote: post #58

> All of your Windows drives, like C: are mounted read/write directly under /mnt. Its the real deal lads, congratulation Microsoft.

MSYS2 mounts C:\ under /c/ and Cygwin under /cygdrive/c/ so what's the real deal?

By default, but you can tell Cygwin to use /c/ though. Really handy when you switch between the two, and actually makes more sense (what else would be /c/ ?)

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#370

Post by iamcurious »

AimHere wrote: post #326

It's time that people stopped using the term 'Windows' for this operating system. The Free Software Foundation created the bulk of the userspace, under terms that allow anyone to share, modify and fork the programs, and then Microsoft came along with the one last missing piece of the puzzle - the kernel, and completed the full operating system, which, to be frank, users find completely unusable and worthless without…

You jest, but I agree. I might accept a GNU/Windows machine as a working computer, but I would be a lot more weary of accepting just a Windows machine.
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