Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#361

Post by 1stop » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:09 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #289

michaelt wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are property taxes calculated in [...] London? Properties are assigned to a tax band based on the tax office's assessment of the house's value were it to have been sold in April 1991. Bands vary from A (less than £40,000) to H (more than £320,000). The council tax ratios between the bands are fixed - so a band A property always pays one third the price of a band H property. The band a house is assigned to is esse…

Another disadvantage is that it's regressive because the bands are quite limited: "The poorest lose 8% of their income to the Council Tax system whilst the richest only lose 2%." ( https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/how-regressive-our-tax-syst... ) "Europe tells UK to reform ‘regressive’ council tax system": http://www.localgov.co.uk/Europe-tells-UK-to-reform-regressi...

Curious why you are getting down votes... Your post is good.

Seems HN group think favours regressive tax?

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#362

Post by danieltillett » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

empressplay wrote: post #32

Melbourne's just as horrible. So's Sydney. So are a lot of places.

At least Sydney has nice beaches. I do agree that housing here suffers the same issues. We need a massive unimproved land value tax.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#363

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #338

fiatmoney wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those houses are lived in though (ignoring the whole issue of unoccupied investment properties). You can have an illiquid market with a ton of housing stock. The Bay Area has a problem with insufficient total housing stock, not with tax policy. You can see this via rental market prices, which are not locked-in like property taxes are. Imagine a Soviet grey-concrete apartment block. You get on the list when you're 18,…

The problem is staying becomes increasing attractive over time. Retired people save money by staying put, young workers can't afford to move in. This breaks the housing market. SF is not a housing market it's effectively a planned communist community with a few bribes on the open market.

> Retired people save money by staying put, young workers can't afford to move in.

This is a problem of housing stock. If you build more housing, it's not going to be occupied by people who've been sitting on it for the last 50 years. That's impossible, because it's new.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#364

Post by ghaff » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:13 PM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #282

branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

The forecast high temps for Montreal this weekend are -5F/-21C and 0F/-18C. The forecast high temps for Vancouver, BC this weekend are 48F/9C and 49F/11C. I suspect this is a bigger contributor to housing prices than "money laundering" -- it's one of the only places in Canada with a reasonable climate.

This is almost certainly one of the issues with Bay area real estate as well. Yes, especially of late it's been driven up a lot by tech. But it also has what many people consider just about a perfect climate (SF admittedly less so than the South Bay)--as well as great access to recreational opportunities.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#365

Post by Raphmedia » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

pakled_engineer wrote: post #118

jimpick wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! The tech salaries are absurdly low. The tech CEOs who pay poor wages and are complaining about their inability to retain talent are the same ones blaming real estate.

The taxes are also high https://simpletax.ca/calculator Select BC and enter in the typical income for an experienced developer in Vancouver which is 75k. Your take home salary is $59,000 plus you aren't offered any options usually just straight pay. This doesn't include all the other deductions such as EI and CPP. Now convert CAD to USD and you're a professional experienced developer making $42,000 USD per year, in o…

59k for BC, 58k for Ont, 54k for QC, etc.

The taxes are not really higher in BC. I do agree that the cost of living is however a lot higher.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#366

Post by jpollock » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #296

svachalek wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 4-bedroom house bought in the 70s is far more affordable than a 1-bedroom condo bought today, which creates a situation where no one can afford to move out of their homes. It's a massive tax benefit for themselves, their children, and grandchildren, that instantly and irrevocably goes away when they sell the house. No matter how high the market drives prices there is little incentive to sell. I don't know how much…

Those houses are lived in though (ignoring the whole issue of unoccupied investment properties). You can have an illiquid market with a ton of housing stock. The Bay Area has a problem with insufficient total housing stock, not with tax policy. You can see this via rental market prices, which are not locked-in like property taxes are. Imagine a Soviet grey-concrete apartment block. You get on the list when you're 18,…

Not necessarily. I've been seeing several ex-rental units which have recently been passed down as part of an estate.

Inheriting a house doesn't result in a valuation event, and the seller has nothing encouraging them to sell. So, the house sits there empty - They're only paying $100/month in taxes, which is coffee money.

The combination of no capital gains on inheritance, no estate taxes and ancient property valuations creates a multi-generational issue where houses are kept locked up.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#367

Post by refurb » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

drpgq wrote: post #291

refurb wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you move to Canada and maintain residency for X number of years.

You just need to make it look like you actually are resident.

They ask for a list of trips you took outside of Canada and check that against your passport stamps. Canada has also started doing "exit checks".

Not saying they always dig into the data to see if you're lying, but they could...

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#368

Post by refurb » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

thebokehwokeh2 wrote: post #218

refurb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Don't forget there is a ton of speculation going on by Canadi…

In the west end, it really is "yellow peril". I am asian myself, but I contribute to the economy as a job provider. Speculators are the reason for the impending ghost town that is Vancouver. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpo...

That is the worst "research" I think I've ever seen....

Chinese name? Foreigner!!! Despite Vancouver being almost 50% Asian.

Canada does not collect data on foreign ownership, and the citizenship of buyers in Yan’s study is not clear. But Yan established that 66 per cent of all buyers had “non-anglicized” Mainland China names.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#369

Post by ghaff » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #36

grayfox wrote: post #35

Currently residing within Vancouver. We love it here, but we have accepted that it is not where we will be able to put roots down. My partner and I work remotely, we'll enjoy our time here then buy a home elsewhere... Like maybe Hawaii. :)

Funny, the last two people I know who moved to Hawaii, moved back a year later. I'll have to find out why. But they must have a good reason - this is Iowa, and its currently 16 degrees.

I know people who love it. But it's expensive and it's a long way from anywhere. You either live in a pretty soulless city (Honolulu) or in effectively a beach community of some sort that's often dominated by tourism.

I appreciate why some people are attracted to it but I could easily see it getting old quickly even if living in a condo near a beautiful beach and ocean initially seemed like the perfect life. (OTOH, it's sure better than Florida IMO.)

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#370

Post by surfmike » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 10:23 PM UTC

gorkemyurt wrote: post #211

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... ) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been payin…

It would make the law more complicated, but I think the property tax should be recalculated annually based on your property value but it should also be capped to a percentage of income. You could set a floor of the existing prop-13 tax rate. And ideally only the land value is taxed, not the structure on top of it.