Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Flex

flex.amazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 475 posts

Re: Amazon Flex

#361

Post by digikata »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #354
digikata wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.

But it would also be a lot easier to track what happened to that package and pinpoint a specific individual for the loss/theft/misdelivery, since Amazon has the driver's personal info, GPS location, and list of packages that they are delivering.

How is that tracking different for a full time person vs a person who works for flex? Basically full time employment makes the workforce more sticky, and whatever performance quality process you run with the workforce will retrain or remove people who don't perform.

With flex, it's likely the same quality process, only the workforce is larger and more likely to churn. So no matter what the performance of the quality process it has some non-zero time to detect and correct worker performance, so I don't see how one avoids a larger rate of delivery faults just from the workforce dynamics.

Re: Amazon Flex

#362

Post by digikata »

murbard2 wrote: post #356
digikata wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.

Amazon will most likely cover such problems, no questions asked. They will be defrauded more, for sure, but they gain a possibly gigantic network of distributors.

But the customer 'hassle' rate just went up, your internal efficiency also went down by whatever it cost to fix the problem, so there had better be some big benefits to this method showing up in other areas.

Re: Amazon Flex

#363

Post by tzier »

shawnee_ wrote: post #118

Q: Where can I deliver with Amazon Flex? A: Amazon Flex is available now in Seattle. It will be available soon in New York, Baltimore, Miami, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, Indianapolis, Atlanta and Portland. Smart move by Amazon to refrain from making any Bay-area city one of its test markets. It's like Amazon is saying "we don't need to prove this will work in the bubble; let's base our test data set on realistic markets…

The biggest reason is because it's extremely difficult to find cost effective labor in SF and LA, due to (a) higher than average cost of living, (b) difficult geographic structure [e.g. most people who do deliveries in SF live 1+hr away, and SF and LA are impossible to get around in), and (c) too many companies competing for the same labor.

I'd also argue that since most co's start in SF, there is very little brand loyalty (95% of my friends use the ridesharing service that's currently not surging) so it's hard to make your mark anymore.

As someone who previously ran ops at a similar on demand company, they're probably testing a cross section of markets. E.g. does this work in a big city with difficult traffic (NY), a smaller city that has tech savvy millennials but isn't a tech haven (Indianapolis), somewhere in between (Chicago). I'm sure their fulfillment center locations also played a role in the location choices.

I don't think they're avoiding CA due to lawsuits. Labor laws are very similar in other states (except for MA, which is oddly one of the few states that has ruled pro-contractor recently). The class actions are happening here since the co's have the largest presence, started here, and labor laws are definitely pro-employee. Even the DOL at a federal level released a paper basically saying "if there is any element of control, they are an employee".

[Edit: added last paragraph about laws.]

Re: Amazon Flex

#364

Post by Nilef »

suvelx wrote: post #96
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-commerce companies have 2 points of contact with the customer - the website and the courier. It makes no sense whatsoever to me why there's this ongoing race to the bottom on the courier side of things while companies spend more and more on the website side. I suppose at that point they already have your money, so what if this delivery experience is awful? Yodel are worse than useless, and I can't see this being mu…

What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free. Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job. Why can't you just say "I'll be at home on Thursday after 5pm. Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues". Courier delivers the package after 5pm on Th…

This is the world we envisage with gophr.it - Unfortunately, we're only inside London at the minute.

Re: Amazon Flex

#365

Post by tzier »

digikata wrote: post #351
thieving_magpie wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man I couldn't care less who hands me my package if it arrives intact and on time. I'm not looking for a "delivery experience".

Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.

The issue rates aren't as high as the media leads you to believe. For example, Airbnb has a policy with Lloyds for any catastrophic events, but they actually don't have that many issues and so just pay for them themselves when they happen. (Or at least this used to be the case.) The media just sensationalizes it when something goes wrong, so you fall into availability bias.

Plus, your costs are offset by having labor cost be variable instead of fixed, not paying benefits, etc. So if your margin is 10% higher as a result and you have a 5% increase in issues, you still come out better.

Re: Amazon Flex

#366

Post by mnem »

suvelx wrote: post #8

I've got a suspicion that Amazon has been trialling/building this in the UK since their purchase of Yodel, perhaps earlier. A number of times some bloke in a car has turned up and delivered me a package. No uniform, no branding. Just a phone running Amazon software. I can't say it's the greatest experience.

Given the number of Yodel parcels that just fail to get delivered, I have to agree that it's not a particularly good experience.

At least Amazon customer support is great.

Re: Amazon Flex

#367

Post by mikeash »

enraged_camel wrote: post #349
mikeash wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, it's "entitlement" to expect that newly purchased clothes don't come with a foul smell? And again, cigarette smoke does not necessarily wash out as easily as you seem to think it does. Would you be as understanding of the driver if he got ice cream all over the clothes instead? After all, wash it and it'll come out.

Most people are smart enough to understand the significant categorical differences between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke. Also, "foul" is completely subjective in this case. Guess what: I hate the plasticy/industrial smell of certain types of clothing packages. But I'm not gonna go around claiming the item is "damaged" simply because I don't like the way it smells out of the box.

What is the categorical difference between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke? Because I honestly don't understand what distinction you're trying to make.

Re: Amazon Flex

#368

Post by Nilef »

shocks wrote: post #126
stephenc_c_ wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blank vans, oftentimes actually rental vans, are actually Amazon Logistics. This is Amazon's own delivery operation in the UK, and all Prime deliveries in my area use this service. It's been years since I have seen any third party delivery providers for Amazon orders.

Every time I've got something delivered by Amazon Logistics, it's actually been APC. Oh, and it's shit. Order next day delivery at 9AM Monday? Delivered 7PM Tuesday! Get it Wednesday because the post room in my office closes at 6PM.

Agreed, absolutely terrible service. My last two next-day Prime deliveries have been dreadful: 1 came a day late, the second still hasn't shown up.

Re: Amazon Flex

#369

Post by the_hangman »

dingaling wrote: post #233
dragonwriter wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free. Because picking a delivery slot imposes a constraint which creates a cost for the delivery provider. > Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job. Most everybody has jobs, but most people I know don'…

> Which would eliminate the freedom of delivery companies to efficiently use delivery vehicles. At present ( in the UK ) most courier delivery fleets stand idle in the evening after being out during the day missing deliveries to people who are in work. And having to call again the next day. It perplexes me why they don't shift their delivery period six hours later to start at 15:00 and end at 21:00. That would cover…

> It perplexes me why they don't shift their delivery period six hours later to start at 15:00 and end at 21:00. That would cover both business and residential hours.

I would imagine that is because the highest margins are made off of next-day deliveries from business to business. They often guarantee these deliveries by 10 AM because many companies are willing to pay extra to ensure that their package is delivered by 10 AM.

Consumers, by contrast, are more interested in paying as little as possible for shipping. Shifting their delivery hours to accommodate a group of customers who aren't willing to pay extra for the service while simultaneously killing off business from their most profitable customers would likely be a poor business decision.

Re: Amazon Flex

#370

Post by chrisBob »

jonlucc wrote: post #251
chrisBob wrote: post #130

I see the appeal for people looking to work, but as a customer I strongly prefer UPS, FedEx or USPS. Last week I got a phone call: "Hi, are you home right now?" It turns out it was actually an Amazon Logistics delivery person, but that still isn't a question I really want to answer over the phone to some random person.

Would you feel better if the person said "Hi, I work for UPS; are you home right now?"? There's no authentication built into the phone call. Perhaps Amazon should use their apps to facilitate that kind of communication with something like a push message?

No, that wouldn't be better, but I have also never gotten such a call from a UPS driver. The UPS driver will just leave the box and go. There was absolutely no reason why this box of baby socks needed them to check with me before leaving it on my front steps.
Post reply on HN