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Please remove mitsuhiko/*

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Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#351

Post by GhotiFish »

DanBC wrote: post #336
GhotiFish wrote: post #285

could someone explain the problem me? I'm not 100% on this service, and I'm not sure I follow the issues here (are they skimming from donations? Is that the problem? Most charities do...) he says tip4commit is profiting off their project, but, it seems like they're just storing the money till the dev claims it, if he wants it. Alternatively, what if I were to hypothetically state the following?: I will give the dev w…

Some countries have strict rules about soliciting or collecting donations. People in those countries want to avoid the small possibility of legal trouble. They want to opt out of the project. The project refuses to allow any form of optout. This means that some people in some countries may have to sepnd time (and this money) talking to police and explaining what's going on. Dumping this time + cost burden on someone…

Well all that is fair, the devil definitely is in the details here.

I can empathise with the reasons to avoid opt out for them, if they view themselves as a transparent third party, then their perspective would be the same as the suggestion I put forward. That people are putting their money towards a project by their own volition. From that perspective, there's nothing the owner can do about it but ask people not to do it.

My post was made before I had gone through the bulk of text in this discussion, so I can see the issue there.

I have to agree with all your points, but your conclusion and ours are different.

Despite the complications, I don't see why a projects head have an innate right to prevent donations to that projects developers. I keep seeing this sentiment come up over and over. I do disagree with that.

Thanks for summarizing the issues!

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#352

Post by wyager »

mbesto wrote: post #349
wyager wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a very naive view of some basic economic concepts. Which concepts in particular are you referring to?

For one, there's a massive disconnect in distinguishing between the value of the currency and currency as a medium of exchange. For example, most sites and discussions focus on the value of BTC vs USD. Very few look at volatility and transaction volume.

>Very few look at volatility

That is fair. Do you think this is an insurmountable disadvantage?

>and transaction volume.

I don't know about that. Bitcoiners have been very vocal about the regularly increasing transaction volume since its inception. See https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popu...

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#353

Post by DanBC »

hippich wrote: post #347
exDM69 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My country has several stupid laws but there's very little I can do to change them (apart from voting). That doesn't make it OK for someone to run a dodgy "donations/tip/contribution" service, asking for money on my behalf. This could potentially cause problems for lots of people around the world (seems like UK has similar laws too). Stupid foreign laws don't go away by ignoring them. Running an international service…

Alright, lets remove tip4commit server from picture. So to put you in jail I just need to find any project you work on, find your name and ask for donations on your behalf? Doesn't this sounds wrong to you? also, people who downvoting here - make sure to read HN rules about what downvotes are for. They are not to downvote different ideas, but to remove useless posts.

If you set up something to collect donations for exDM69 they might have to explain to the police what was going on.

That takes time, and costs money.

exDM69 can avoid spending that time and money by asking you to stop collecting money for them.

And so now you have a choice: offer to give timy amounts of money to someone who will never accept it; or you could respect that person's wishes by not accepting donations for them. (And that's the honest thing to do for the people giving you the money! If Bob tells you he's never going to accept the money it's dishonest to keep accepting donations for Bob).

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#354

Post by JohnTHaller »

jordigh wrote: post #192
JohnTHaller wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason HNers are pulling out the DMCA is because another project is (unethically or not) using their names to raise funds in a way that they do not permit. That has nothing to do with bitcoin. Like it or not, the pseudonymous (not anonymous) nature of bitcoin will always attract a high level of illegal and unethical activity. Many people will then use those activities, stories, and experiences to paint bitco…

> The only reason HNers are pulling out the DMCA is because another project is (unethically or not) using their names to raise funds in a way that they do not permit. And what does that have to do with the digital millenium copyright act? Using a name without permission in a way that can confuse consumers is a trademark violation, not a copyright violation. It's horrible that the DMCA has turned into a generic weapon…

It doesn't. It would likely fall under trademark law. Could possibly also fall under fraud. But people have come to using 'use the DMCA' for everything involving copyrights, trademarks, and licensing agreements for some reason.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#355

Post by ougawouga »

shiven wrote: post #344
wyager wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a very naive view of some basic economic concepts. Which concepts in particular are you referring to?

The failure, nay the pigheaded refusal, to learn from history. BitCoin is faux money and will likely be recorded as the "Dutch Tulip Bubble" [0] of our times. Intentions and wishful thinking alone are not enough to create revolutions. Crises are invariably required to change such fundamental concepts as value of currency in the public's mind, and it has to happen on a massive scale in a tiny span of time. BitCoin wil…

OK, you're making 2 different claims. The first claim is that Bitoiners refuse to learn from history. But the second claim is that crises are required for revolutionary change (history says, I presume). So how are Bitcoiners refusing to learn from history? By trying in the first place? Or by failing to manufacture a crisis?

And really, linking to the wikipedia page of tulip mania, as if we haven't heard that trope 10,000 times?

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#356

Post by adventured »

jordanpg wrote: post #168
jnbiche wrote: post #119

These kinds of episodes are making me increasingly depressed. On one hand, I'm incredibly disappointed in the ethics and morality of some of the people who have latched on to Bitcoin. And sadly, I'd have to include tip4commit in that group, particularly since they are "opt-out" and yet have been spamming people after each commit [ubernostrum points out below that they aren't even "opt-out", since they're not honoring…

From Bitcoin's own FAQ [1]: "One could argue that gold isn't backed by anything either. Bitcoins have properties resulting from the system's design that allows them to be subjectively valued by individuals. This valuation is demonstrated when individuals freely exchange for or with bitcoins. Please refer to the Subjective Theory of Value." Like it or not, Bitcoin has a PR problem. It needs be liked and trusted in add…

One couldn't argue that gold isn't backed by anything. There's no argument to be made, the Bitcoin FAQ is flat out wrong.

Gold, at a minimum, is backed by the infinite, perpetual demand by people for luxury goods. It's also backed to a lesser extent by industrial uses.

Such demand guarantees some level of value for gold.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#357

Post by adventured »

Ologn wrote: post #306
joshuak wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not theoretical that bitcoin holds value, that is a fact. That it shouldn't, or won't at some point in the future is the theory. Reality does not yield to arguments of the contrary.

Bitcoin has no value. It has a price, but not a value. Dutch tulip bulbs, 2008 Sacramento real estate devlopments, Pets.com stock all had prices at some point, but their value was always less than its price.

Saying that the value is way less than the price, is not the same as something having no value (your first sentence).

Your examples contradict your first point.

Tulips have value today, a lot less than the bubble. Sacramento real estate has lots of value today. Pets.com was worth something even when it went bankrupt, even as little as it might have been.

$4.3 billion isn't a very big bubble besides. Not even a drop in the ocean of global currencies.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#358

Post by lotsofmangos »

wyager wrote: post #324
mbesto wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fair to say that the vocal majority of BitCoiners have a very naive view of some basic economic concepts.

>a very naive view of some basic economic concepts. Which concepts in particular are you referring to?

Friction, lowest friction tends to win and bitcoin demands friction to run the blockchain. I don't think electronic exchange mechanisms are daft, but I do think the bitcoin model is.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#359

Post by kordless »

mbesto wrote: post #240
art2 wrote: post #194

What is staggering is that one would assume that this service was created with the aim of helping open source developers, but when the developers ask personally to make a reasonable change to how the site is functioning, the owners decline. So the reason the site exists is something different. I don't think it's fraud. It's probably the weird culture of the (younger) part of the Bitcoin community, for whom the Bitcoi…

I think it's fair to say that the vocal majority of BitCoiners have a very naive view of some basic economic concepts.

I think it's fair to say that's a blaming statement. Comments by people who appreciate the value of the blockchain are not all naive. I'd say the vast majority of people don't quite understand the ramifications yet, and would rather talk about what we all focus on: money. That's not what I think the value of Bitcoin is, however.

Re: Please remove mitsuhiko/*

#360

Post by jevgeni »

wyager wrote: post #352
mbesto wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, there's a massive disconnect in distinguishing between the value of the currency and currency as a medium of exchange. For example, most sites and discussions focus on the value of BTC vs USD. Very few look at volatility and transaction volume.

>Very few look at volatility That is fair. Do you think this is an insurmountable disadvantage? >and transaction volume. I don't know about that. Bitcoiners have been very vocal about the regularly increasing transaction volume since its inception. See https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popu...

Using Bitcoin is basically, like using a foreign currency, with the only difference, that in case of a the conventional currency you might actually live in the country it is used.

In other words, whenever you use Bitcoin you take on FX risk. This means, that Bitcoin is something you wouldn't want to store value in for the long-term.

Hedging that risk will also prove a major headache, since there aren't that many Bitcoin contracts out there, and the ones that are, carry some major credit risk with them.

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