Earlier quoted context omitted.
Elon Musk is not running for governor of NJ, so viewing it as "a trend of corruption in his opponent's administration" is not advisable. The other problem with this is that the Gov is still has popular support and Mr. Musk probably negatively influenced those people. Further, making this an actual political fight is really not something Mr. Musk should be looking towards because their is a fair amount of material the…
I think you may have misunderstood my comment, they're only political opponents in the sense that Musk wants to rally Christie's constituents to push back on this decision, and the battle is over public policy. Of course Musk isn't running. Christie has a lot more to lose by his constituents seeing a bad trend in Christie's record than Musk has by any personal character attacks Christie could send back his way. Musk'…
Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
351–360 of 410 posts
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not the right way to think about it. Taxes are only a small portion of the economic activity a bunch of car dealerships in a state generate. A dealer gets to keep some of that profit margin that Tesla gets 100% of right now. They then pay the dealership owner (1 job), the receptionist (2 jobs), the finance guy (3 jobs) and pay the commission to the sales guy (4 jobs) and then you bring back the car to the repa…
> A dealer gets to keep some of that profit margin that Tesla gets 100% of right now. They then pay the dealership owner (1 job), the receptionist (2 jobs), the finance guy (3 jobs) and pay the commission to the sales guy (4 jobs) and then you bring back the car to the repair center manager (5 jobs) the mechanic (6 jobs) the car wash guy (7 jobs). There's also the sales tax on the car + the income tax for those 4 peo…
Tesla's "dealer" lives in CA. GM's "dealer" lives in MI and Italy. Honda's "dealer" lives in Japan. Hyundai's "dealer" lives in South Korea. BMW's "dealer" lives in Germany. Mercedes' "dealer" lives in Germany. Toyota's "dealer" lives in Japan. Ford's "dealer" lives in MI. Suburu's "dealer" lives in Japan.
and on and on and on: Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, VW, Cadillac, Fiat, Jaguar, Kia, Nissan, Porsche etc.
I don't know how many dealerships are in New Jersey, but let's say there's 1,000. You give Tesla the ability to sell direct to consumer, then everybody else will want to do the same. Franchise dealerships don't get their contracts renewed and every car maker moves to direct to consumer. Congratulations State Legislator jonknee, you've just cost New Jersey a minimum of 1,000 very lucrative jobs.
To give you an idea of how important 1,000 jobs are to a state economy, when Alabama was fighting for Hyundai to come open up a plant for 2,000 workers, with an average salary of just $40,000, Alabama offered around $253 million in incentives or over $115,000 per job. This is because of all the economic activity having just 1,000 employees running around with cash in their pockets would create and the network effects therein. Over 5 or 10 years, Alabama is set to make up that investment in spades.
I don't know how much your average car dealership owner makes, but I bet it's quite a bit over $40,000. I bet a 1,000 out of work bankrupt dealership owners is a pretty big slice of state economic pie. Over 5 or 10 years, I'd hazard they represent way more than $253 million in activity to New Jersey.
So congratulations, you've just cost New Jersey hundreds of millions of dollars in GDP and economic activity just by counting only the dealership owners and not all the rest.
Now you and I both know that when you go to 47 in Vineland, and there's mile after mile of car dealerships. They don't just have 1 or 2 sales guys. Each of those places employs a dozen to two dozen sales guys. A dealership can do that because they don't pay these guys almost anything except commission, so they can afford to keep a bunch of them around, grooming their power ties. So let's say there's an average of 12 sales guys for New Jersey's 1,000 dealerships or 12,000 people employed just selling the cars.
Well a Tesla style dealership doesn't want high pressure commission only power tie wearing salesmen. They want "car information experts". So they hire say 4 guys to mill around and direct potential customers to the interactive information kiosks. Let's say NJ is able to get all 4 of these guys from the pool of current car sales guys. What happens to the other 8?
So we have about 8,000 guys out of work. Congratulations. Let's use Alabama's model, you've just cost New Jersey a few billion dollars in economic losses. And now all those food trucks and restaurants and tie shops have to figure out how to get by with 1/3rd the number of customers. So that's even more people out of work and more economic losses.
How much economic damage are you willing to cause New Jersey, legislator jonknee, just so consumers don't have to haggle a bit when they buy a car every 7 years on average?
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although personally satisfying for the writer, that is a pretty good example of something never to write in a letter that you want to positively influence a situation. Referring to a scandal by a politician when lobbying isn't really going to work, and all letters addresses "to the people" are lobbying.
You've got a good point. If he wants to appease Christie, this is not the way to do it. But if he wants payback, well, keep twisting that knife.
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#354The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal. Look at the economics of a Tesla dealership, for every car sold in New Jersey, how much of that money stays in New Jersey? And let's be honest, being a car salesman is not the most lucrative or respectable of trades. The j…
> The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal. That can be said to be true about everything. Why allow online software sales, or Amazon purchases? Force them to have local BNM shops.
In your example, states are actively trying to collect at least sales tax. New Jersey is no exception
http://www.northjersey.com/news/sales-tax-decision-could-be-...
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#355Paternalistic meddling with free consumer choices is always fraught with peril. Sometimes it is necessary to protect important principles in society. You can't discriminate based on race - that limits choice but who would support the contrary? You can't defraud people in selling products - ditto. You can't buy land to build a smokestack plant in a quiet residential neighborhood - ditto. Many other examples might be c…
"You can't discriminate based on race - that limits choice but who would support the contrary?" If someone refuses to serve or otherwise interact with me on account of my race, I would not use the threat of deadly force to change his behavior, nor would I advocate that anyone else do that on my behalf. That is not to say that I approve of racial discrimination, or that I would do absolutely nothing about it. I am onl…
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
Until that bug causes a car to drive unexpectedly into a wall in the interim time until you've sent out a patch. The importance of being bug-free is much more driven by the potential damage caused by a bug than how quickly you can update the software.
do you think that the gasoline cars don't have software updates? their engine is nowadays all software controlled and theres a fw update plug, generally under your driving wheel. and they'll update it when they service the car. how is that software any safer than the OTA? its not.
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just to clarify for any europeans who might have read this, ""speed limit+9mph" informal rule " - is a rule (at least in California) for what your minimum speed on the freeway/highway should politely be. Anybody traveling slower than this needs to be in the slower right lanes to avoid getting tailgated or inspiring road rage. I've often wondered if anybody traveling at (or just over) the speed limit on the freeway ha…
I'm reading this as a half joke or deliberate troll. "Speed limit + 9" is the typical speed on most of the Bay Area highways I drive on.
Try going less than 80mph in the fast lane on 101, 280 or 880 when traffic allows for it. Just try.
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's not forget the $500M loan Uncle Sam, er, The American Taxpayers, made to Musk, which in the case of Tesla failing, would have been a write off for us, but in the case of Tesla succeeding, only makes us a bit of interest, while making a billionaire more billions.
Tesla repaid their loan nine years early and is the only American car company to have fully repaid the government ever. This is a company the American Taxpayer should be truly proud of. Also, do you really believe Elon Musk started an electric car company, a company which builds rockets and one which is the largest residential solar power provider in the country, under the only premise to make more money?
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It sucks, but if you were a legislator in NJ, would you rather Tesla's profit went all out of state to Tesla, or if your citizens could get a crack at some of it and have it circulate around in the local economy for a bit. I was making a similar point earlier. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if over time we start seeing more laws passed to encourage more of the money citizens of states spend to stay in-state. I thin…
Right, it's actually the job of the legislature to try and pass laws and create regulations to advantage their market over external competitors -- even if that means creating local monopolies. It sucks that New Jersey has to think of California as a competitor (after all, aren't California and New Jersey domestic territories of the same country?), but resources are finite. And if you, as a legislator, think bringing…
While true, it's also universally true of just about everything. Yes, using resellers/dealers/etc. means that you have to give them a slice of "your" money. It also frees you from having the scale up the infrastructure and employees yourself. Which is why franchise models (either pure or blended) are so popular.
I suspect the more pressing motivation is that Musk wants to have complete freedom to do things his way without filtering by a middleman who would likely be strongly influenced by the way that auto dealers have historically operated.
That said, a couple of points.
1. As another poster noted, the auto dealer "experience" that many of us are familiar with doesn't necessarily reflect the experience one gets with a luxury car brand. Haggling over a Ford Fusion and walking into a $INSERT_LUXURY_BRAND dealership aren't the same thing.
2. I suspect a lot of folks are underestimating the degree to which Tesla will have to provide local services that look a lot like a dealership as it scales up and certainly as it introduces cars at more mainstream price points. For example, you need service centers--as they are building out today.
Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm reading this as a half joke or deliberate troll. "Speed limit + 9" is the typical speed on most of the Bay Area highways I drive on.
It's actually more like speed limit + 15-20, in the fast lane. Try going less than 80mph in the fast lane on 101, 280 or 880 when traffic allows for it. Just try.