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SteamOS

store.steampowered.com

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Re: SteamOS

#351

Post by simias »

rocky1138 wrote: post #329
simias wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked on the particular issue of streaming real-time video over wireless, I can say that the main issue is not link latency. The main lag comes from encoding/decoding. If you do it naively you encode frame-per-frame (encoding slices is more difficult), and the encoder does not only outputs iframes: you get partial frames that depend on both previous and future frames. Also the decoder does not always output f…

What about scrapping the conversion to streaming video entirely and replacing it with a networked graphics protocol that allows one PC to draw on another's graphics natively?

Well that would simplify things greatly of course, but then it means bit hit on the bandwidth.

I mean, a 720p60Hz stream in 4:2:0 (12 bits per pixel) still amounts to 663Mbits/s. You won't get that out of a gigabit link realistically (at least not over IP). Of course you could use a lightweight compression algorithm, but you'll have to divide this bandwidth by at least 5 to make it manageable for the average home network I'd say (I have absolutely nothing to back that last number, but 100Mbits/s doesn't look too scary...). And that's only for 720p remember.

I think if you plan to stream HD video over the network you have to encode and be clever about it.

Re: SteamOS

#352

Post by pekk »

Jaecen wrote: post #165

Having a machine boot into Steam will have an interesting effect on other similar services like Origin and Desura. It will no longer be sufficient to request customers install yet another download manager/DRM platform; instead customers would have to boot in to a different OS to play their Origin games.

So much the worse for Origin, which was a stupid idea anyway.

Desura runs on Linux.

Re: SteamOS

#353

Post by snotrockets »

fps wrote: post #228
snotrockets wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that like Android, they're going to leverage Linux-the-kernel, but have a user space that is alien to the one common in current Linux servers and desktops. I can understand: I'd say good riddance to some parts of the userspace myself cough X windows system cough , but having a few different userspaces is like having the UNIX wars all over again. PS "The UNIX wars" has a modern space opera ring to it, like s…

That seems really unlikely. Steam for Linux runs on Ubuntu as it's platform of choice, and installs via apt-get. They're already running all their games under X and the standard Ubuntu userspace tools, with BigPicture, it would be very surprising for them to fork the platform at this point. Android made sense because standard linux/X windows applications didn't work on a multi-touch mobile device for a whole host of…

X has a lot of baggage. And by lot, I mean a few metric tons. The protocol can do things you wouldn't believe, and do that in the most cumbersome way (it was all the range in the Eighties, or so I'm told).

Most of Steam and Steam games don't really use X as anything but a bootstrap for GL, and run full screen, so they could be easily ported to FB+GL (consider that there's already a GTK backend that renders to FB, no X involved).

Re: SteamOS

#354

Post by pekk »

Simucal wrote: post #149
xpose2000 wrote: post #122

"In SteamOS, we have achieved significant performance increases in graphics processing". I assume they mean in comparison to other Linux OSs. Beating windows drivers seems a bit far fetched?

Valve has reported better performance in Linux than in Windows 7 for at least one of their titles [1]. [1] http://www.zdnet.com/valve-linux-runs-our-games-faster-than-...

Depending greatly on your hardware. And there's the rub. And there's the reason it could be really nice to have Steam boxes and certification of hardware for SteamOS

Re: SteamOS

#355

Post by PhasmaFelis »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #336
deletes wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that the circle represents the SteamOS. The brackets int the second announcement must represent SteamBox. The third announcement has two circles with a plus sign in between which has to do something with connectivity to other players. Probably an equivalent of Xbox Live. ( My bet for the name is SteamPipe :) ) If Half-Life 3 was represented it would have to be a sign inside the circle as it is mainly a single…

Why is the circle off to one side of the box. Maybe I'm reading too much into it... but perhaps it could be a game controller and not a set-top box?

Valve took out a patent a while back on a gamepad where the fixed D-pads were replaced with sockets that could accept a D-pad, a trackball, extra buttons, etc: http://gamerant.com/valve-console-controller-hold-137072/

I will be so Goddamn happy if they're actually making that thing. I love modularity, and a trackball gamepad would flawlessly combine the convenience of a gamepad with the precision of a mouse. Several groups have tried to bring one to market, and studies have shown their superiority, but apparently they were too weird to get enough preorders. Hope hope hope...

Re: SteamOS

#357

Post by ebertx »

rkalla wrote: post #192
corresation wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux Valve has been planning this for a while, and has had pretty good success motivating a lot of smaller publishers to target Linux, even though the base isn't there yet, and of course have moved their own incredibly valuable games to Linux. Major game engines (Unreal 3D, Unity, among others) already support Linux as an equal target.

Dennis, maybe you are right... this is a long-game and they are just getting ahead of the inevitable (engines supporting Linux natively, eventually more and more releases for the platform). I suppose this is the curse of the first-mover, it always seems to be risky/nonsensical until it isn't... then we all see it as an obvious move in hindsight ;)

Yeah, this reminds of the initial launch of Steam back in 2003. At first it seemed like an annoying hoop to jump through. As the years went by and it got more dependable, more games, and more features, it became easier and easier to forget how annoying it was in the beginning.

I wonder if the same thing will happen with SteamOS. At best it will initially seem like a novelty, then 10 years from now a huge group of customers will have forgotten what it was like to never have had it.

Re: SteamOS

#358

Post by simias »

pachydermic wrote: post #335
simias wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked on the particular issue of streaming real-time video over wireless, I can say that the main issue is not link latency. The main lag comes from encoding/decoding. If you do it naively you encode frame-per-frame (encoding slices is more difficult), and the encoder does not only outputs iframes: you get partial frames that depend on both previous and future frames. Also the decoder does not always output f…

I would think that the people at Valve would be able to find a solution if anyone could... or are you claiming that this is a hard nut to crack and SteamOS's streaming solution won't end up being that great for high-resolution TVs?

Oh I'm sure if they put their minds to it they can make some improvements and clever optimizations. The thing it becomes exponentially more difficult the lowest the latency you want to achieve, obviously. Also, you have to remember that steam won't control the encoding end of the pipeline (and if the "steambox" is third party hardware with steamOS installed, no control at all on the hardware). Which means that in the end the observed latency will depend a lot on the hardware and drivers of the desktop PC and there isn't much Valve can do about that.

So in the end I'm sure it'll be more than fine to play Civilization or Torchlight, MMOs and most RPGs but maybe not Counter Strike or Quake III.

Re: SteamOS

#359

Post by geuis »

rkalla wrote: post #26

This is effectively the software-only equivalent of a console launch. Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? Valve certainly has a better chance than most at pulling this off (and likely enough user/market data to make this seem like a valid investment) I am still super skeptical that these publishers are going to spend the time portin…

The market is already there. Steam already has more users that both Xbox and Playstation combined.

Re: SteamOS

#360

Post by pmarsh »

RyanZAG wrote: post #83

This is basically a similar approach Android took for phones. It leverages off Linux while replacing user facing pieces to give the user a simplified and consistent environment that they expect. However as with Android, that isn't enough to get it to take off. Android had huge traction problems to start with until they managed to get the big device makers to train users and market the devices. SteamOS is going to hav…

Like Android had Google users, Steam has a user base already.

I think that will help get people onboard as well. Everything is already right there for you, your friend list, your games, your awards, your wallet.

Getting a box running SteamOS is just another piece of the puzzle for Steam users invested in the ecosystem.

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