Are the Guardian and Washington Post going to explain why their "PRISM" slides are different? (Guardian has no arrow head, and red rectangle behind logo in upper right)
US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
351–360 of 420 posts
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#352I have a simple question: If you're a terrorist, why would you use any of these pre-built services? There are so many ways to do point-to-point, encrypted at both ends... I guess when I hear "Dragnet"... the only people I see getting swept into it is innocent people and really, really, really stupid terrorists.
It's really hard not to leak information. This is just a guess, but if they see you doing something they don't like but can't decrypt, they can check their huge PRISM database for your ip. Even if you do a good job at hiding who you are, communication outside of the encrypted channel you are using might reveal yourself.
Also they have their hooks in Microsoft and Apple. It stands to reason that means a backdoor in each of the operating systems, as well.
You'd have to really be paranoid to avoid this. Using an opensource OS find an open access point, with no surveillance cameras anywhere, use it only for your encrypted communication and nothing else, and then leave and never come back. And obviously, don't bring a cellphone with you.
Considering this was top secret, I would bet that a lot of persons of interest didn't know about PRISM either, making it a lot harder to realize that they fucked up.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#353I have a simple question: If you're a terrorist, why would you use any of these pre-built services? There are so many ways to do point-to-point, encrypted at both ends... I guess when I hear "Dragnet"... the only people I see getting swept into it is innocent people and really, really, really stupid terrorists.
It's really hard not to leak information. This is just a guess, but if they see you doing something they don't like but can't decrypt, they can check their huge PRISM database for your ip. Even if you do a good job at hiding who you are, communication outside of the encrypted channel you are using might reveal yourself.
Also they have their hooks in Microsoft and Apple. It stands to reason that means a backdoor in each of the operating systems, as well.
You'd have to really be paranoid to avoid this. Using an opensource OS find an open access point, with no surveillance cameras anywhere, use it only for your encrypted communication and nothing else, and then leave and never come back. And obviously, don't bring a cellphone with you.
Considering this was top secret, I would bet that a lot of persons of interest didn't know about PRISM either, making it a lot harder to realize that they fucked up.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#354Yes, this is bad. Yes, you are right to be upset. Yes you (not not really me, I'm not American and i avoid american hosting and hosting companies like amazon for exactly this reason) should change that. But honestly, are you surprised? Are you really? Government agencies have be building large datacenters, the EU loves data retention. There was no tin foil head required to see this.
Im not sure being not American saves us. Do you use any of those US services? If so, I assume they have your data. If you are British, as I am, I assume our government is shovelling off all our data to the US too. As far as I am concerned, the internet is now pretty much like having our lives bugged. Might as well go the whole hog and have CCTV in all house holds. Heh, for all I know they access out webcams, etc. So,…
Not only that, but Microsoft and Apple? The same companies who make the most popular OS's and phone OS's in the world?
It's not much of a leap to think that the NSA has backdoors into each of these OS's, too.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#355What bothers me is that Apple and Microsoft have both been cooperative. It's not much of a leap to think that the NSA has a backdoor into Windows, MacOS, and iOS now either.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#356How about some kind of non-violent mass protest, it worked for sopa? A million geeks have quite a lot of power, if its focused at one point in time. What would be the most effective form of protest? Examples : Everyone call random phone number on their mobile phones at exactly the same time "Hi, Im your friendly geek, just wanted you to know this conversation is being monitored" Everyone use TOR for one week. Everyon…
How about creating a website which allows us all to find a pen-friend in Iran, Gaza, Yemen, Afghanistan or wherever, and we send regular (e.g. weekly) communications to that person. It would be a good thing to do anyway.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#357Are the Guardian and Washington Post going to explain why their "PRISM" slides are different? (Guardian has no arrow head, and red rectangle behind logo in upper right)
Probably not; it suggests that they were separate leaks of different versions of the same presentation.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#358An important thing to know here is how compartmentalization works.
On one hand, it's to help limit classified information to those with a need-to-know.
On the other hand, it's used to mislead oversight and limit the visible scope of an overall goal.
So while it may be technically true that PRISM is only doing x, there may be a separate compartment (called, say FROGBUTT or whatever) that performs the sister role of y in support of PRISM.
This is how intelligence agencies hide and mislead the public. They say "Yeah, we do have a program called FROGBUTT that collects call metadata, but we don't collect personal information or examine the contents of a call." What they don't mention is that they have another companion program called LIZARDDICK that does collect that accompanying personal information, and they have yet another program called COWBONG that collects the contents of calls.
This is how this work. Plausible deniability, onion layers, confusion. Combine this with the fact they periodically change compartment program names, and it gets exponential.
See also: RAGTIME, THINTHREAD, STELLAR WIND, TRAILBLAZER, etc
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#359So...I am going to just go on the record and say it.
I was an Obama supporter - both times.
But this crap....is definitely impeachable.
He blatantly made it sound nice, that we wouldn't sacrifice liberty for security and all this stuff.
But then all of these revelations - are you kidding me.
Someone has to pay - or many have to pay.
This is disgusting man.
Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…
Here's a Devil's Advocate position (not necessarily my personal beliefs, so please don't downvote based on disagreement. Just rip it to shreds instead!): The fear of losing privacy to the government is based on the fear that this increased surveillance will be used by the government to smother dissent. This is a valid fear, but has the government yet used surveillance to smother dissent? If you can find a solid examp…
I don't think the issue that people are up-in-arms about isn't just the surveillance thing.
It's also because it seemed as if Obama understood that there should be a delicate line between sacrificing liberty for security.
He also talks about people not wanting a 'big gov't...but a smarter gov't'.
But it is becoming increasingly clear that he was just talking smooth - but doing quite the opposite.
Please note, I am not an Obama hater. I supported him twice - I even have a Shepherd Fairy 'Change' poster.
But this is just disgusting man.
It's like someone that runs a campaign talking about how much they love guns, and how much they are going to protect gun ownership - then when they win, they talk a good talk, but then we find out that the government has been secretly buying up all the guns they can (to dry up supply) and closing down all the gun shops.