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Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

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351–360 of 368 posts

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#351
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before you go to the capitalist in their home and torch it or beat them in front of their family, try striking for a while. Usually they soften rather quickly when labour is collectively withheld.

Yes but going on a strike without a union is hard, and they know that. > The percentage of workers belonging to a union (or total labor union "density") varies by country. In 2024 it was 9.4% in the United States, compared to 20.1% in 1983, the first year with data suitable for comparison.[2]: 1 [3] There were 14.3 million members in the U.S. in 2022, down from 17.7 million in 1983.[2][3] Union membership in the priv…

If there isn't one in your workplace, start one. You need to find two other people and then you start meeting regularly, perhaps biweekly, and learn how to appoint the chairperson of that meeting and a secretary.

Once meetings and documentation is working, decide on a small issue that you know that more people in the workplace are annoyed by and would be an easy fix for the organisation. Then you write to the relevant boss and present the demand. Either they fix it voluntarily, or you wait a while and then you write to them again and add a demand to have a meeting about the issue.

Escalate slowly and methodically, and when you get the win, lay low for a bit and use it to recruit. Make all decisions by consensus in the beginning, don't start with majority decisions until most or all of the workers in the department have joined. Always escalate slowly and gradually, until you have the power to shut the entire organisation down on a short notice.

Act in a way that makes your union predictable to the bosses. Corporate management is easily confused and you'll prefer them to negotiate over lashing out wildly. When people are inevitably fired, keep in contact with them, both personally and through routines you establish in the union. Some people are unsuited for negotiation, documentation and so on but are good at doing phone calls and checking up on previous members and reporting back.

Focus entirely on things that are important to make the daily work less dangerous, more convenient, more rewarding. Small steps, low hanging fruit first, only one issue at a time. When you have a success, send a note about it to some local labour friendly organisation or publication.

Don't waste time on identity politics, everyone in the workplace who isn't a boss is a worker regardless of what they do or how they're compensated, the union does not need a name or bank account until you have federated with quite a large amount of people. You don't need to register some association to have meetings and make decisions, that's for when you have like a few hundred people and want to throw parties and have conferences and things like renting a place requires you to register with some bureaucracy.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere in the GPL does it say how you can USE the software - you are free to run, modify, and use it any way you see fit. All its restrictions are triggered by DISTRIBUTION of the software, especially modified versions.

The big gotcha is what one understands under the word "use". If I want to USE it as a basis for my business where I sell routers with the GPL software, there are some tiny restrictions regarding that, as Linksys learned [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenWrt (see History section)

That’s correct. You can’t take freedoms away from your downstream users. As I said before, violating a free software license usually means you are stealing from your users, negating them rights they ought to be given.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If knowledge is to be free, that means there should be no restrictions on how it is used. Even an open source license misses the point, because the implication is still that one person can dictate how another person can make use of knowledge. It’s still premised on the same dystopian view that a person can own an idea.

Knowledge is free as in *free beer once in a while because you genuinely can’t pay*, not free as in *scale up the freemium model, keep grabbing free stuff daily, weekly, monthly, and then start running your own pub with the free beers you took from the neighboring pub.* This discussion is intellectually dishonest. Either some people here genuinely dont understand the concepts of kindness and gratitude, or they do und…

First of all, I’d recommend you not accuse others of being intellectually dishonest simply because they have a stance you disagree with.

Second of all, “knowledge is free” doesn’t mean it is free to generate. It means that it literally cannot be owned. Property implies scarcity. If I use a thing, it makes it so you can’t use that thing. This does not apply to something like knowledge. The fact that I use your idea doesn’t mean you can no longer make use of that idea. Your analogy is flawed, because drinking a beer means that is a beer that cannot be used by someone else. Intellectual property is an oxymoron. There is nothing actually stopping someone from making use of someone else’s knowledge, and therefore we must artificially construct barriers in order to maximize the ability to profit off of it. In the most charitable sense, this in theory provides financial incentive for people to generate knowledge. In a less charitable sense, it is literal though policing for the sole purpose of extracting money.

I get that making use of knowledge without compensating the person who produced it is “theft” under our system. The problem is not with the act. It is with the system in which knowledge work can only support an individual if these dystopian measures are enforced. Frankly, most knowledge work is built on mountains of previous knowledge work that never is compensated for it anyways, so the model of the world isn’t even internally consistent.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If knowledge is to be free, that means there should be no restrictions on how it is used. Even an open source license misses the point, because the implication is still that one person can dictate how another person can make use of knowledge. It’s still premised on the same dystopian view that a person can own an idea.

If knowledge is to be free, then any corporate/commercial interest that locks up modified knowledge (code) to run their own services should have that locked-up knowledge freed from their commercial silo as well.

If they lock it up, they lock it up. They don’t need to be forced to open it up. But they also shouldn’t be able to prevent others for making use of any knowledge gleaned from it.

In the case of AI, I don’t think LLM providers are required to make their models completely open source just because they were trained on the data freely available on the internet. Those model weights aren’t the original data anyways, so they aren’t even selling access to that original data. However, there is should be nothing preventing others from creating and selling something produced from those LLMs. Distillation, for example, is free game.

In short, you should be required to make your knowledge freely available. But once someone has access to that knowledge, you can’t stop them from using it however they wish, including if they wish to sell it themselves.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If knowledge is to be free, that means there should be no restrictions on how it is used. Even an open source license misses the point, because the implication is still that one person can dictate how another person can make use of knowledge. It’s still premised on the same dystopian view that a person can own an idea.

> Even an open source license misses the point, because the implication is still that one person can dictate how another person can make use of knowledge To be considered open source software, the license cannot impose any restrictions on how the software is used. You are free to use the software for whatever purpose you want.

There’s plenty of licenses that dictate that code can’t be used in commercial applications, or what kind of license derivatives can use.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#356
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow very well put.

Except it’s not. That poster is just doing an IP law version of the “paradox of tolerance”. Their argument is just: you say you want information to be free yet you believe in licenses that keep information from being made un-free.

Has absolutely nothing to do with the paradox of intolerance. If you have a more substantive criticism, feel free to elaborate.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#357
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If knowledge is to be free, that means there should be no restrictions on how it is used. Even an open source license misses the point, because the implication is still that one person can dictate how another person can make use of knowledge. It’s still premised on the same dystopian view that a person can own an idea.

Knowledge should be free, but that can't be treated too literally. Not a unique case of this kind of phrase. If we're doing capitalism people have to be paid somehow, and when people say "free" they don't mean "absolutely". I mean, speaking of open source, consider "free" software. Open source licenses are almost entirely unrelated. They're strictly a hack around the copyright system, and not only that, they literall…

> If we're doing capitalism people have to be paid somehow, and when people say "free" they don't mean "absolutely".

Therein lies the entire issue. Intellectual property is a paradox and a farce, but our current systems require IP as a concept to exist. 99% of human history existed without the concept of IP law, and yet people still innovated, learned, and shared knowledge. But now we are at a point where human beings can only survive if they have something they can productize and sell to others, and so for knowledge to be produced, it has to turned into something that is artificially scarce, so that those producing it can be compensated for their labor. Maybe this is unavoidable for this point of our evolution. I doubt it, as 99% of human history managed without the concept of IP, and we still produced and shared knowledge.

But even if it is necessary for this stage, it is still a dystopian model. And I imagine we aren’t far off from a point where we can provide for everyone’s basic needs, and therefore we don’t need to introduce artificial scarcity to make knowledge work economically viable.

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Go read e.g. GPL license before spreading such falsehoods.

Nowhere in the GPL does it say how you can USE the software - you are free to run, modify, and use it any way you see fit. All its restrictions are triggered by DISTRIBUTION of the software, especially modified versions.

Distribution is a subset of use

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#359
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We sell ebooks in every country, including Tunisia - https://www.ebooks.com/en-tn/ . I understand that the price of books is sometimes prohibitive, but it's largely outside our control.

The issue is not the amount; it's the currency. Ours is not convertible. To put it into perspective: even *free* services can be completely inaccessible here if they require payment info for verification purposes. Acquiring hard currency to spend online is truly a bureaucratic nightmare, and even if you manage it, the annual limit is strictly capped (at around $300).

Thanks for the reply. If the books were sold in Tunisian dinar (via Stripe), would you still have the same issues?

Re: Google Books (or similar) all book scans – $200k bounty (2025)

#360
post #333
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that ... HN is a conversation. It's not a very interesting conversation when you say a few words and then refuse to say more, telling the other people at the table to look it up. I could look up lots and lots of things to see for myself. I wouldn't be reading your comment, and there is not enough time in the universe. Readers don't have time to look up everything other people post. It's up to the c…

Fair enough. Not everyone always has time to reiterate Wikipedia on what seems to me a relatively well-known concept, at least among people to whom this is relevant (e.g. me as an OpenStreetMap contributor, database copyright is like the first thing you learn after making your first edit because that's why you can't copy data from just any source). There's always a lucky ten thousand around I suppose :). Maybe I shou…

I don't have much interest in Wikipedia, and even then an encyclopedia article doesn't explain what you mean and doesn't apply it to this situation.

Humans don't communicate by exchanging links to reference material.

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