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Apple - Think Twice

thenbells.com

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Re: Apple - Think Twice

#351

Post by beedogs »

robomartin wrote: post #193

As this article pertains to screen issues how about we discuss this a little bit rather than engaging in senseless rants? The "ghosting" issue the article highlights is a known problem with certain types of LCD screens. With a caveat I'll say that LG LCD panels are known for these kinds of issues much more so than Samsung's. The caveat is that ALL OEM LCD manufacturers have issues, all of them. The other very importa…

"I am not making excuses for Apple. If you pay that much for a laptop you want it to be perfect. I get it. I also get that it just won't happen. Too many moving parts."

I'd agree if this were, say, the SD card reader or maybe the keyboard backlight. But it's the fucking display. The very thing customers are paying a premium for is the thing that's unusable on their overpriced laptops.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#352

Post by mturmon »

astrodust wrote: post #123
Breakthrough wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The new Dell Ubuntu laptop is the only thing I can think of as a reasonable alternative to what Apple's doing." Maybe you should get your head out of the gutter and realize a laptop isn't deemed "good" because it's an alternative to "what Apple's doing". Edit : And to whoever downvoted this, thank you for proving my point.

Until there are other vendors on the same page as Apple, there's no way to put it otherwise. If you want to buy power tools, a watch, a car, you have many choices of first-rate products. When it comes to computers it's such a broken marketplace. It'd be a world where there's BMW and a whole bunch of Hyundai-type companies. I have my head in the gutter because I have standards? Expectations? That appearances do matter…

I wouldn't bother arguing. If people want to use other laptop hardware, for reasons partly imaginary, defending their choice by juvenile name-calling, let them.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#353

Post by nsxwolf »

Apple has had all sorts of screen problems for many years now. Most customers don't notice them, but if you're keen to such things, you probably don't approach powering up a new Apple device with the joy that's supposed to come with it. You hold your breath and scan the screen with great anxiety for dead pixels, yellow stripes, pink and green splotches, uneven backlighting, ghosting, and light leakage.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#354

Post by mturmon »

DannyBee wrote: post #181
michael_miller wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you had some bad experiences, but do you really think that Apple makes products with "no engineering applied past experience"? Surely Apple's products have had faults, and it sounds like you've been bitten more than once. I don't blame you for not liking the company or its products. However, there are lots of satisfied customers, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who believed that their…

A great example of "no engineering applied past appearance": The strain reliefs on every power adapter they make start out horrible, they fray, they get a lawsuit, then they fix them to look "uglier" but actually work. Then they release a new power adapter that looks good but sucks again and the cycle continues. I'm having trouble finding the lawsuit over the old powerbook connectors, so let's start with magsafe 1 Or…

But: many people have had no problem with any of these Magsafe designs, despite frequent use. Weird, huh?

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#355

Post by prawn »

astrodust wrote: post #330
vacri wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously saying you've never heard any of the voluminous complaints about Dell over the years?

If you're talking about small-time bitching in forums, then probably, but when's the last time someone's blog post about a defect on their Dell is considered newsworthy?

Apple's successes and failures often make the news. How is that the fault of anyone frothing about their complaint?

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#356

Post by mturmon »

meaty wrote: post #295
beala wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've had four different products that have either melted, caught fire, or suffered hardware failures? Are you sure it's not an issue with the power coming out of your outlets? Perhaps the Lenovos have better power filtering, but by the sound of it, you're pretty paranoid about those failing, too.

The power is fine. Everything computer-wise comes off the back off a large APC UPS. Nothing but apple kit has ever failed on it. Regarding owning two, its because I don't put all my eggs in one basket. Why buy one when you can have two for twice the cost.

Thus, apparently you should continue to use Lenovo T61s running off a UPS. Enjoy your path.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#357

Post by jtheory »

joonix wrote: post #346
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #150

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

My advice is to use what the government has set out for people to use: the courts. Sue them in small claims court. Apple has sold something that is not suitable for its intended purpose, and has breached warranties required by law such as warranty of merchantability. Even a place like Texas has the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. Under this act a consumer can sue for breach of these warranties and receive damages, AND…

I can't imagine it's that clearcut.

What's the "intended purpose" for a general-purpose laptop?

Editing text, watching video, playing music, etc.., plus the long tail of more unusual things that may be possible depending on what software you install.

Are there any relatively common tasks that will actually be prevented by this level of ghosting? I don't mean "it's a bit annoying", I mean "this task is no longer feasible".

I've never used a computer with any ghosting that bothered me personally, so I may be missing something.

I'm not a graphic designer though; but neither is the author of the post AFAICT (PhD business student).

So my feel is that this is more in the category of a scratch on the bottom of a new laptop (doesn't actually affect the use, but annoys you each time you notice it and remember you paid full price) than, say, a space bar that only works 80% of the time (which would actively mar your ability to use the device).

So sure, Apple may not be playing this right to give their customers the appropriate warm fuzzy feelings, but I highly doubt they're doing anything illegal.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#358

Post by jtheory »

j2bax wrote: post #284
robomartin wrote: post #193

As this article pertains to screen issues how about we discuss this a little bit rather than engaging in senseless rants? The "ghosting" issue the article highlights is a known problem with certain types of LCD screens. With a caveat I'll say that LG LCD panels are known for these kinds of issues much more so than Samsung's. The caveat is that ALL OEM LCD manufacturers have issues, all of them. The other very importa…

One of my co-workers had the same problem OP posted about. He was really excited about the Retina screen, but as compared to every other LCD he's been using for the last 5+ years, it had a significantly worse ghosting issues. In the end, after at least one display swap, Apple let him swap it out for a comparable non-retina Macbook Pro. Problem went away. I think they did good in not telling him his only option was to…

> For that reason, they should put every effort into ensuring that it is good as it can possibly be for anyone that pays for it, no matter the cost.

Every effort? No matter the cost?

They still have to run a business, I'm afraid... though the other possibility you didn't mention (but could be implied) is that they could have waited a little longer before releasing the retina displays.

I don't see tech news sites swamped with articles about the disastrous retina ghosting issues, though... so perhaps most users agree with Apple's decision. I certainly see the business reasons for it (though I was buying a MBA for my wife soon after the new retina display was released, and intentionally got the older model to avoid the first release of new tech...).

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#359

Post by piyush_soni »

enraged_camel wrote: post #75

Apple haters have really come out of the woodwork today. The fact of the matter is that every first-gen product has had and will have issues regardless of the manufacturer. Apple just gets a lot of flak because they manufacture some of the best products out there and are very vocal about it. So the moment they make a slip, they get stoned by haters who were waiting in ambush. I, too, have had some bad experiences wit…

And you somehow think you're a superior human being for not having 'made a ruckus' about it and going to another Apple store to fix your problem. Do you realize that by doing that you not only kept them being retard, but also promoted the culture that nothing happens to you when you act like that to your customers. You are actually paying for the most convenient service, but when you don't get it, you don't raise your voice and let the world be an ugly place. What if even the second store people were retards? You'd go to a third one (possibly in another city) right?

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#360

Post by ripperdoc »

j-b wrote: post #194
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #150

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

Don't forget the old adage that reality is 90% perception. If your customers "think" they have a problem, that in itself is an issue that needs to be dealt with. My customers don't care if their system issues are actually a problem in my software or not. "Not a problem" doesn't work if you want to keep paying customers around.

That's true about "customerS" but not for "a customer". There will always be a percentage of customers that expect more than the norm (for good or not so good reasons). The company cannot treat everyone's opinion the same, as they'd then need to design a product and customer support that makes the most picky person happy - which would be nice for all customers but very costly.

In the end, the company has to decide where they put the bar for "good customer support", from "making at least 50% happy" up to "making 95% happy" but never "making 100% happy". And of course, the price paid should be in relation to this, which in Apple's case, it may not be (but to be fair - I hear a lot of good stories about Apple support as well, so this one event cannot determine whether Apple does support well).

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