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Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

reuters.com

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Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#351

Post by manyaoman »

Zvez wrote: post #314
hashstring wrote: post #191

> Between October 7, 2023 and October 7, 2025, at least 20,179 children were killed, around 30% of the overall death toll. > A rebuttal shared by Israel's mission in Geneva said Israel "consistently strives to minimize harm to children even in situations of conflict". Well, it is certainly no question that Israel is killing children en masse. Israeli officials are saying “but we are trying to minimize”. Well, these a…

> Yes, horrible, but at what point does the consensus become that October 7 starts to look like a small event in light of the death toll on the other side At the point when other side (free palestine and alike) start acknowledging it. Two wrongs don't make something right. Start with teaching Palestine supporters that hamas is not the answer. And maybe, maybe after that people start seeing Palestine people as victims…

Start with teaching Israel supporters that IOF is not the answer. And maybe, maybe after that people start seeing Israelis as victims. Without it, most people will continue supporting Palestine, not because they think that it does no wrong. But in comparison with IOF and their supporters Palestine is lesser evil.

Fixed that for you.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#352

Post by flossly »

chistev wrote: post #150
mech998877 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that having a multitude of roughly-equal competing powers results in more per-capita death from war than when there is 1 or two dominant nations. The 1800's and early 1900's were bloody. Post WWII has had less death from war.

Maybe because of nukes now.

Or mass media.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#353

Post by flossly »

fergie wrote: post #67
cognitiveinline wrote: post #3

Maybe to spark curious conversation, when a world power seems to be supportive of actions that an international body considers negative, what structure can help resolve these? It does seem like UN is unable to really make a dent here.

Boycott. Divestment. Sanctions.

Agreed. But to do so at govt level, those govts first need to free themselves from the infiltration of lobbyists that make these kinds of policies "unthinkable" for their coward politicians.

This is, IMHO, the big difference with enacting these kinds of policies to apartheid South Africa (mentioned a lot in this discussion). Lobbyism is very effective in this specific case.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#354

Post by flossly »

jameshilliard wrote: post #211
amatheus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths should not fall randomly across the population unless you’re committing war crimes.

Deaths in Gaza are very much not random. Adult men have the highest casualties which is what would be expected since Hamas militants are most often adult men, it's well documented that Hamas also uses child soldiers to some degree as well.

Adult men are also the ones first to head out to retrieve food from dangerous places.

> it's well documented

It's well documented that food distribution places were specifically made dangerous.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#355

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

gershy wrote: post #335
t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the effect of your actions is a war crime, you are a war criminal. If the Russians also do it, that is additional evidence of war crimes.

But of course you're not arguing that collateral damage proves war crime?

I would expect the UN to investigate what the IDF defines as collateral damage and draw their own conclusion. Their conclusion is genocide.

I'm not sure all the facts are in yet in relation to Ukraine, but I do not anticipate that Putin will be getting his yacht back in the immediate future.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#356

Post by suburban_strike »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #278
borolaj wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, however the claim is not war crimes, its genocide. People think that using genocide to simply mean lots of killing and destruction and war makes them morally superior, but genocide entails "intent" and we need a vocabulary to differentiate between the two.

Overall, intent is quite hard to prove. You would need to access internal documents and communications that explicitly direct the military. That's probably not going to happen. However, from what I have observed, Israeli government officials have often expresses that intent publicly, despite claiming otherwise at the UN.

In this case it is fundamentally impossible, since halakha prohibits deliberate targeting of civilians-- but not collateral damage.

So if you optimize for collateral damage and all civilian casualties are "accidental," then you are wholly operating within the constraints of your moral framework and can plausibly deny all claims of genocidal intent.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#357

Post by andriy_koval »

t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #355
gershy wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But of course you're not arguing that collateral damage proves war crime?

I would expect the UN to investigate what the IDF defines as collateral damage and draw their own conclusion. Their conclusion is genocide. I'm not sure all the facts are in yet in relation to Ukraine, but I do not anticipate that Putin will be getting his yacht back in the immediate future.

Would you accept opinion that UN is politicized org which does work of varying quality and its conclusion can't be accepted as ground truth without trivial checks?

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#358

Post by hardbass »

gryzzly wrote: post #283
iJohnDoe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has had a hand up each US politician’s ass since the 1980s. Israel owns all of them.

[flagged]

Antisemitism doesn't mean anything. It is simply a neutral non-word that changes no meaning of the sentence and to be mentally removed from anywhere it occurs. It used to mean something once. It doesn't mean anything now.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#359

Post by hardbass »

henry2023 wrote: post #289
talon8635 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Israel people actually are in favor of targeting these kids because they might grow resentful of Israel and join Hamas. I know many in that camp, and this sounds bananas to me.

Maybe you don’t know them well enough. If you inquiry about the killed children most agree is sad but ultimately they believe it has to be done.

It's easy to solve that problem. Stop attacking Palestinians and stop stealing land. Unfortunately that is a very difficult problem for Israelis. Its sad that Israelis and their hardware have to be eliminated in combat, but ultimately this is what has to be done to repel them.

Re: Israel targeted Gaza children resulting in genocide, UN inquiry says

#360

Post by cindyllm »

hardbass wrote: post #359
henry2023 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you don’t know them well enough. If you inquiry about the killed children most agree is sad but ultimately they believe it has to be done.

It's easy to solve that problem. Stop attacking Palestinians and stop stealing land. Unfortunately that is a very difficult problem for Israelis. Its sad that Israelis and their hardware have to be eliminated in combat, but ultimately this is what has to be done to repel them.

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