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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#351

Post by CMay »

whyage wrote: post #345
CMay wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda. If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

> The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. This is propaganda as well, only more agreeable to you.

What questions did you ask to arrive at that conclusion?

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#352

Post by lokar »

WarmWash wrote: post #317
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

Really it comes down to religion, and Israel being the bastion of anti-islam in the Middle East. Doesn't hurt that they are also liberal democracy and have advanced economy as well.

What’s wrong with Islam?

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#353

Post by jfengel »

Terr_ wrote: post #324
WarmWash wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really it comes down to religion, and Israel being the bastion of anti-islam in the Middle East. Doesn't hurt that they are also liberal democracy and have advanced economy as well.

> liberal democracy With a big honking caveat-asterisk that it only applies if you're on the right side of the apartheid.

Well, on the right side of the border. Everybody within the actual borders can vote, regardless of race, religion, etc. In a lot of ways it's a more democratic system than the US has, with multiple functioning parties.

The "apartheid" part is the people in the West Bank and Gaza, who are not Israeli but also not their own country.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#354

Post by yyyk »

parthdesai wrote: post #73
petcat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA almost certainly spies on Israel (and everyone else) far deeper than anyone spies on them.

They sure do, but looking at recent events, you can make an educated guess on which country has more influence over the other. Part of it can be attributed to spying and knowing dark? secrets.

Trump publicly prohibited various Israeli operations (at end of 2025 op and 2026 Iran war), publicly badmouthed Nethanyahu repeatedly (via Barak Ravid), and had various diplomatic initiatives Nethanyahu didn't like. It's pretty obvious who has more influence here.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#355

Post by fakedang »

jasonlotito wrote: post #169
Arodex wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump doesn't let Bibi bomb Lebanon and doesn't fight to the last American in Iran

Trump doesn't let? Trump is sitting in a chair in the corner of the room of any negotiation he's in. He's weak at best.

> sitting in a chair

More like sleeping in the chair

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#356

Post by fakedang »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #314
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when Iran offered to open the strait When did Iran offer this? (One problem with a decapitation strike is you no longer have a single party to negotiate with.) > If they want Iran to truely bend the knee over nukes then they have to commit harder militarily than they are now It's genuinely unclear if America has the military power to project into Iran to the degree a ground invasion would require. (Like, short of c…

Iran opened the strait as a gesture after the Lebanon ceasefire was announced. Trump then immediately announced "blockade stays" in some truth social rant, so they reclosed it within a day.

Don't forget the part where the Lebanon ceasefire was announced, Israel decided to continue its bombing and occupation campaign and broke the ceasefire, then Trump immediately announced the blockade stays in that TS rant.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#357

Post by dmix »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #279
dmix wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue wasn't a lack of planning by the military it was a lack of commitment on the goals by the administration. If it was just a desert storm style campaign (hit them very hard over a month then leave without finishing off Saddam) then they should have left already when Iran offered to open the strait, and it could have been sold as a success. If they want Iran to truely bend the knee over nukes then they have to…

> when Iran offered to open the strait When did Iran offer this? (One problem with a decapitation strike is you no longer have a single party to negotiate with.) > If they want Iran to truely bend the knee over nukes then they have to commit harder militarily than they are now It's genuinely unclear if America has the military power to project into Iran to the degree a ground invasion would require. (Like, short of c…

> When did Iran offer this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/27/world/middleeast/iran-tru...

Trump complicated things by demanding the uranium immediately and Israel much more complicated things by overreacting to Lebanon striking Israel when the blockade started (Iran likely told Hezbollah to hit Israel as a negotiation gambit). This means to sign a deal Iran now had to both embarrass themselves by giving up uranium and also show that IRGC abandons their partners (Hezbollah, Hamas) which will ruin their whole militia proxy war ambitions they’ve been spending millions on since the Lebanon civil war.

I personally believe Iran was willing to compromise on the uranium in exchange for the US totally dropping sanctions. It is Israel being hyper aggressive that is ruining things by trying to retake southern Lebanon (which they controlled until 2000) and pushing US to resume the air campaign… while now also spying on US negotiators.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#358

Post by SilverElfin »

lokar wrote: post #352
WarmWash wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really it comes down to religion, and Israel being the bastion of anti-islam in the Middle East. Doesn't hurt that they are also liberal democracy and have advanced economy as well.

What’s wrong with Islam?

[flagged]

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#359

Post by fakedang »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #232
swat535 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Iranian, now living in the west. Allow me to chime in.. So Iran doesn't have a central command, they've developed a mosaic system where the 30+ chains operate autonomously. It is also multi-layered (IRGC, Artesh, Basij, etc). The multi-layered design was developed after the revolution, when they realized that the regime should be protected in case of internal mutiny. IRGC specifically was put in place to protect…

> They've prepared for this war for 47 years, _literally_ praying for it Is there an apocalyptic religious movement in Iran? Similar to American Evangelists hoping for Armageddon?

The entire Shia sect is basically an apocalyptic religious movement. Has been since the start when Ali, the first Imam and fourth Caliph for the Sunnis, was assassinated, his sons following him, only for the assassination mastermind to usurp his Caliphate. Combine that with the millenarianism of the Safavids in the 15th and 16th centuries.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#360

Post by dmix »

fakedang wrote: post #356
nixon_why69 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran opened the strait as a gesture after the Lebanon ceasefire was announced. Trump then immediately announced "blockade stays" in some truth social rant, so they reclosed it within a day.

Don't forget the part where the Lebanon ceasefire was announced, Israel decided to continue its bombing and occupation campaign and broke the ceasefire, then Trump immediately announced the blockade stays in that TS rant.

Technically Hezbollah fired rockets at Israel first on March 2nd and Israel responded… then Israel repeatedly bullshitted some ceasefires to keep the US placated while they simultaneously ramping up both a ground invasion and air campaign. Hezbollah equally is no doubt being pushed hard to keep fighting by Iran.

Israel is definitely showing they are a bad partner to the US and should be the more responsible one (nobody expects much from Hezbollah which Iran just selfishly exploits). But Netanyahu seems to want to burn everything to the ground while he still can since he knows his career is already over.

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